Other > General Game Discussion
New Reno Sewers
Horatio:
--- Quote from: T-888 on July 15, 2012, 11:26:06 pm ---Surf, new reno sewers and random encounters are apples and oranges.
Those rats in the sewers serve no real purpose, other than hinder the ability to effectively navigate the city through underground.
--- End quote ---
This comment made me chuckle, after i realised how selfish it sounded. The PvP players like T-888 think that the sewers are built exclusively for them and complain about a bug which is actually a feature.
Thus, the rats are for them a annoyance, while for others who seek direct PvE action, is a excellent interlude in a adventure maze and a little blood/grindfest.
I think this idea is awesome and we should have more of that. :)
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:33:26 pm ---How is it different? Are there non instanced PvE locations that get constantly interrupted by people seeking for PvP other than random encounters? I just like what Johnny Nuclear did with the Sewers and people who criticize rats being there are going a bit hyperbole. It is supposed to be some alternative route through the city, if a rat eating your armor for 0 hp is too much for you then maybe use the streets instead?
--- End quote ---
Couldn't say any better, Surf.
T-888:
Streets can't always be utilized effectively for strategic purposes, due to narrow space between buildings. Sewers comes in and adds flexibility how to navigate the city, both better for players who enjoy PvP, and for players who are just looking for a safer path. Rats makes usage of underground less convenient as those npc's are quite a lot, respawn fast and constantly harrass any player initiating combat, just an annoyance.
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:33:26 pm ---How is it different? Are there non instanced PvE locations that get constantly interrupted by people seeking for PvP other than random encounters?
--- End quote ---
Huh? *error, does not compute *
--- Quote from: Horatio on July 15, 2012, 11:44:05 pm ---Thus, the rats are for them a annoyance, while for others who seek direct PvE action, is a excellent interlude in a adventure maze and a little blood/grindfest.
--- End quote ---
Some molerats and rats? Excellent adventure maze? ;D
wait wait .... under a PvP city, PvE adventure
;D
the map is real cool, but no the rats.
John Porno:
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:33:26 pm ---I just like what Johnny Nuclear did with the Sewers and people who criticize rats being there are going a bit hyperbole. It is supposed to be some alternative route through the city, if a rat eating your armor for 0 hp is too much for you then maybe use the streets instead?
--- End quote ---
Maybe you could understand how much of an annoyance it is if you played the game yourself.
Since you don't, I'll explain it to you: It takes valuable time to kill these rats. Due to the nature of the map, bg's arent even able to kill these rats properly without sacrificing extra ammo or taking even more time getting the burstlines right. After that you have to wait another 5-10 seconds for everyone to reload and get their ap back and waiting for the battle timer to run out. All while the second group of your team is getting devastated on ground level by the enemy that you were supposed to backstab 15 seconds earlier.
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:14:17 pm ---It's usual doublestandards from avv. At one time they complain they get gnarled off by 0 hp from some rats (omfg no PvE in PvP locations!11) but at the other rate it is totally ok to burst people fighting/levelling in random encounters.
--- End quote ---
You may have forgotten it, but one of the specialities of this game is the fact that you can kill everyone, everywhere on the map. I dont see how playing the game as intended can in any way work as an anti-pvp argument.
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:33:26 pm ---It is supposed to be some alternative route through the city, if a rat eating your armor for 0 hp is too much for you then maybe use the streets instead?
--- End quote ---
Alright, let's do that, let's use the streets again.Wait, why do we still have the sewers, then?
As you might know (hah) the nature of the the spawns on commercial often lead to stalemates. Especially this season, since high-ac trolls and duallog sneaks always make sure to have eyes on the enemy. Now the sewers are finally a solution to the problem of how to attack a big group that is camping commercial and as far as I can tell, the whole community appreciates the idea of sewers.
--- Quote from: Horatio on July 15, 2012, 11:44:05 pm ---This comment made me chuckle, after i realised how selfish it sounded. The PvP players like T-888 think that the sewers are built exclusively for them and complain about a bug which is actually a feature.
Thus, the rats are for them a annoyance, while for others who seek direct PvE action, is a excellent interlude in a adventure maze and a little blood/grindfest.
--- End quote ---
Isnt it more selfish of the pve guys to inhibit pvp that most of the server population seems to be taking part in, regarding for example the high numbers of players after the TC fix?
When was the last time you have actually seen a "pve'er" in reno? One that actually made to the closest sewer entrance even? Also, you can kill rats all over the world map. I admit that people are curious about the sewers and will probably want to check it out. But as avv said, they will check it once or twice and then never go back as there's no reason to do so for a pve guy.
The rats however will continue to annoy 95% of the people playing in reno. For months to come, I guess.
avv:
--- Quote from: Surf on July 15, 2012, 11:33:26 pm ---How is it different? Are there non instanced PvE locations that get constantly interrupted by people seeking for PvP other than random encounters? I just like what Johnny Nuclear did with the Sewers and people who criticize rats being there are going a bit hyperbole. It is supposed to be some alternative route through the city, if a rat eating your armor for 0 hp is too much for you then maybe use the streets instead?
--- End quote ---
It's not the rats hitting armor for 0 damage, but preventing players from leaving because of combat timer. And there's about 100 rats down there, meaning that if you enter from virgin street and run to the commercial entrance you got like half of the sewer rats after you. The rats also block players in the narrow passages.
It's the same old again: a feature is added that apes can use - not only apes, but it has potential for them - but there is a small flaw that prevents the feature from working properly in ape gameplay. So the apes mention it and receive an answer that resembles "u mad, ape?" attitude.
Honestly making the rats only hostile towards intentional attacks wouldn't hurt anyone at all. I doubt any nuubs would come complaining that the rats don't behave in realistic way or that they are getting too much easy xp. Let's be realistic here.
naossano:
Did explored the sewer today.
Nice map, nice map.
I like that there is some pve going on.
But there are, indeed, too much rats.
I went there with a pistol and 50 bullets, ready to clean that mess.
I instant killed them, which means 1 bullet for 1 creature.
I think i killed them all (not sure) and left with only one bullet in my inventory.
So they are at least 49...
If the one who travel these sewer is unlucky, unskilled, or a burster, he would spend far more bullets, and maybe out of ammo when he reaches the other side.
So, the stalling is a good idea, so the area is less crowded, but at the end, i doubt players would still want to waste a lot of ammo agains't those rats.
There is also a little issue about the water. I think this is quite a good idea to have these barrier, but there aren't quite easy to recognize at the first time. Is it the same texture than the west beach ?
Ultimatelly, i think the whole map, mechanics and contents are near perfect, but need a little balancing...
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