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Author Topic: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature  (Read 3881 times)

Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2012, 05:30:10 pm »

if this gonna be implemented i suggest to use work of prisoners.
they can make rot gut or something useless at theyr jail, so even if someone payd they still need to make some big items (rot gut) quantiny.

or even convert it to flamer fuel.
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Michaelh139

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Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2012, 10:29:26 pm »

I am glad at least 75% of the people on the thread attempt to make a point while the rest all I here is this:

"I don't want it because I don't like it".

T-888, seriously.  You're complaining about the alt retardation in the picture?  The whole game is about alts, ESPECIALLY now.  So that's not a good excuse to blow off a suggestion.

Kilgore, shut up and read the suggestion more thoroughly :).  or, perhaps read it at all.

Red.dot:  no reason to say anything to you at this point.

------------- finished with current trolls.


onto the people who actually at least tried.

Malice Song, game is all about alts.  It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

I would also like to add the possibility of a specific time limit to captured, that you could only be held prisoner for maybe 24 hours and then you're released to the respawn point, and all gear is put into TC chest.  Gang members could also release player prisoners themselves.... if they wanted.


Killer Rabbit, re-read the suggestion please.  You're not FORCED to do anything.  The entire possibility of being captured is totally within you're hands.  When -HP (and I hope unconcious too, perhaps must be added) you can just ~cuttheveins.

And Lordus:  I don't like the idea of just pve.  You see the militia getting raped 24/7 so easily because of SD sneak and such?  and even before then it's pretty friggin simple to kill npcs with any build.  It would only be a very minor annoyance if it was pve only, but I do respect you're counter to my idea.  It'd probably be considered more acceptable to general population from what I see.

Who Killed Bambi, I was thinking the same thing, except you can work somehow to get out of prison.  But I honestly see this becoming too complicated :D.

Damn.  so much text.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 12:30:22 am by Michaelh139 »
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Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 03:24:40 am »

Okay, I can totally understand if this is just rejected without a second thought but I really wanna discuss this possibility.

From the very start you accepted the possibility of player opinion inconsistency and general logic incompatibility that would certainly not lead to congenial , suitable discussion where players can agree on something. The problem is you forgot your one of the players.

It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

Irrelevant. I don't see how this feature will bring any interest in towns , nor something good for gameplay. The idea sounds very far-fetched and for a good reason. Capturing faction membersalts that are stored in some storage room for ransom. Seriously ? I don't accept the concept in general , that's the first thing that needs to be done by any player in order to provide some kind of positive feedback , even though it will not always be very constructed , but that doesn't mean those players don't have viable points. Points , that you are ignoring and aren't thinking through enough.

Do you want me to continue ?

T-888, seriously.  You're complaining about the alt retardation in the picture?  The whole game is about alts, ESPECIALLY now.  So that's not a good excuse to blow off a suggestion.

Quite dumb and careless to make things even worse. Current situation in server needs to be readjusted and from what i have read you understand that much more thorough than most of the players here. Under no circumstances we should embrace ideas that encourages alting , i myself support the principle that less alts i need to play efficiently the better. The thing is , there's a possibility that developers don't agree that FR encourages alting. Maybe , just MAYBE they think it makes no difference ( maybe they don't have time to fix anything , or now it's an engine problem , who knows?!?! ) , but i certainly don't think they just spontaneously changed their minds about alts , because they have always been against them.

This suggestion will just never happen , deal with it.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 04:01:13 am by T-888 »
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Michaelh139

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Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 04:30:28 am »

I personally gave up about the alt thing.

I think devs just got tired of the whole deal and let it happen now.

So I don't think it really matters at this point, the arguments in relation to alts.

The rest of what you said (first two quotings) make no sense or I am simply not understanding you're point.  I literally do not see any point that backs up your claim that this is a bad suggestion.  Besides possibly the third quote.  You're just basically saying "no it's bad it is no good".

And if you're gonna mention I am ignoring others points, when I've been attempting to debate constructively with almost literally every person posting on the thread...  Countering their statements with facts or, highly likely scenarios. :-\

Yes, I did foreshadow the likelihood of this suggestion being shot down.  But I would prefer that people at least attempt at a sensible argument for their conclusion at least.  Something you had ultimately failed to do.  And still appear to in my case at least.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 05:17:10 am by Michaelh139 »
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Whenever I say something, imagine \"In my opinion"/ being in the front of every sentence.
Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 11:59:30 am »

game is all about alts.  It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

Nah, game isn't about alts, it's about tent decoration. See what I did there?
The problem with a statement like that is not only that it is highly debatable imo, but also that - since you are not arguing for a feature that prevents people from playing the game in itself - the whole validity of your suggestion as a reasonable feature depends on that assumption being true, otherwise it would act as a symbolical off-switch again, at least for part of your playerbase (and for what it's worth most likely the vast majority of new players). In other words, if you accept the prohibitve nature of such a system as terrible design, your counterargument to that is "you're playing the game wrong".

However let's cast that aside for a moment and address a few more concrete points. A few pieces of information as a baseline: technically I'm part of a player faction. Two people, two chars, no alts. Surprisingly, depending on what you think our ambitions are, we're actually doing pretty good. Rather nonsurprisingly I can tell you right now that ambitions definitely don't involve anything that require alts for validity.

So let's imagine I get captured.

How is my faction going to be notified? Hopefully that is not expected from me, because not everyone is using IRC, I surely won't have a radio while being imprisoned and PM seems like a great idea to just drag the situation out further. In any case smaller factions that could add diversity are going to take it up the ass, simply because a lot less players would be online to receive a notification and act upon it.

So let's say there's an attempt to bust me out, what's my role in this? Running, I'd expect, but since, because of the outlined communication issues, there's a non-zero chance I don't know when that would happen, I'd have to idle around in a cell in the meantime, doing exactly nothing. Of course I could try to chat it up with my guards relying on my charme to get me out of that mess, but chances are they weren't too talkative when they opened fire to begin with. Also, the whole busting out scenario is now kind of off the table, so smaller factions that could add diversity are going to take it even deeper.

Last option: ransom. Where would it be delivered? Since you probably wouldn't trade with anyone without seeing the goods, there's basically one place left to make the exchange. So where I was careless (or what ever circumstances led to my captivity), my teammate(s) are now forced into potentially repeating that mistake. Not to mention that one payment of 24k may not be a big deal, but it would potentially add up. Smaller factions ... you get the idea.

Obviously there's workarounds for those problems, but off the top of my hat I can't think of any that not only don't involve alts, but also almost trivialize the issue. Alts for base creation that just add pvp builds as friends, so no one of your targeted audience is even viable for capturing as has already been mentioned, for example. Or simply ignoring the situation for 24 hours, if the alt is released after that anyways. And possibly not taking part in any action where that alt could see use, I'd imagine.

Now what are the implications here? I'd assume the impact on your target player base is minimal at best. From my perspective occupied towns are dangerous to begin with. Which is fine. Once I drop there's a reasonable chance I get my ass bursted and sent to respawn. Now change "getting shot in two seconds" to "getting pummeled for what seems like ages by a HH troll that doesn't do too much damage (we don't want to kill the hostage, after all)" and "1 minute respawn and loss of whatever I carried" to "out cold for a day". In other words, since I chose to play a single character, there is absolutely no viable scenario in which I'd ever visit one of those locations again, effectively turning content associated with high risk into practically near inaccessible content. If that sounds like too much whine, imagine I'd flip the tables and propose no access to guarded towns for alts. Would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

One of the few things I like about this game is how people who enjoy the RPG/social aspects of it can blend together with players more interested in interfaction conflict. In fact I think it's its redeeming quality and while I'm certainly not a fan of some of the recent changes, it's a tough job to balance these two groups against each other. What doesn't help, however, is pretending one group doesn't exist or flatout telling them they're playing the wrong game. Which may even seem that way from your point of view, but I am under the impression that the majority of new players I meet (and it's been a few) actually don't initially plan on developing multiple personalities, but often do so out of perceived necessity - or simply quit. Bottom line is, while I am highly in favor of almost anything that adds realism and/or makes the game actually harsh, right now I fail to see how such a feature would do anything but being a mild annoyance at best for one part of the player base while severly fucking the other.

On a personal note, yes, if such a thing even exists, I am probably playing the game wrong. However that usually leads to me trying to assist new players I meet by helping them out with some gear/hides take them along to get their feet wet by shooting at Brahmin in RT or stuff like that. If I were playing the game "correctly", chances are I'd advise them to make alts for bursting and looting in guarded towns, imagine how much fun that would be for all involved. Generally diversity is not something you want to get rid off.
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Michaelh139

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Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 12:51:18 pm »

@malice Song -  This is what I was looking for! :D

You win though, hands down.
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Whenever I say something, imagine \"In my opinion"/ being in the front of every sentence.
Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 01:12:13 pm »

The rest of what you said (first two quotings) make no sense or I am simply not understanding you're point.  I literally do not see any point that backs up your claim that this is a bad suggestion.  Besides possibly the third quote.  You're just basically saying "no it's bad it is no good".

First is irony , second quote brings up the irrelevance of the feature , you don't even explain why this feature should be implemented what good it would bring ? In the third quote , i'm implying how alting shouldn't be encouraged , because you gave up on alting doesn't make that an obsolete argument. Now you have a big wall of text quite clearly why alting is bad , it could have been told in a lot of less words but that will do too.

Simple , yet strong example. Loner joins a faction and level's up his first build , he get's caught and now he can't do anything about it , what if he's faction can't help him at the moment ? Simple answer - more alts. Stupid.

So yeah , your ignoring arguments. Not only that , but flaws of this feature too.

Yes, I did foreshadow the likelihood of this suggestion being shot down.  But I would prefer that people at least attempt at a sensible argument for their conclusion at least.  Something you had ultimately failed to do.  And still appear to in my case at least.

Whatever man , players don't like this suggestion , don't like it in general. This suggestion is not well put , it simply isn't. What more to do you want , for each player to write an essay about this crap ?

~cuttheveins ~suicide

It doesn't work if you have more health than zero. Most of the time you wouldn't even have the chance to do it , then again this only proves there's no point of this feature ...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 01:26:24 pm by T-888 »
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Michaelh139

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Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2012, 10:05:02 pm »

The effect of this suggestion is this

Losing in intense pvp has the chance of actually having the extreme repurcussions it should have.

intense pertaining to faction vs faction wars.  gang vs gang.

You ignored my mentioning that you would be released in 24 hours though that was directed to someone else's argument.

Also in main post, that knocked out may require the adding that you can commit suicide just as -HP.

See?  You "ignore" shit too.


Every suggestion has flaws, that's why you iron them out with logical discussions and suggest things to fix the issues.  But this discussion is done.
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Whenever I say something, imagine \"In my opinion"/ being in the front of every sentence.
Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2012, 11:08:01 pm »

Kilgore, shut up and read the suggestion more thoroughly :).  or, perhaps read it at all.
I've read it and decided to not waste my time on proving that this suggestion is infinitely retarded.
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