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[Jack Torrance]

@X_Treme
Personally I'm about to finish soon making of my first-after-wipe-PvP-char and ALL I'm gonna do when I finish is gonna be staying in north towns and looking for some action - I mean I play mostly alone, so I'll be looking for some good 1 on 1 PvP. So there are still some people who play this game only for the thrill of a good manhunt

[Marko]

I started my private production network of bases and i'm mining, gathering, and crafting like crazy. I have a lockpick 300 guy who hunts blueprints for hours and hours. I have a PvP big gunner who kicks butt. I have crafters leveling up making guns, armor and ammo. All that work and i have to make an observation:

Some of the changes are outstanding, but playing this game to its fullest means typically the funnest part is PvP battles. All of the other stuff we have to do is just prep-work for the next main even - another PvP battle. So the problem i have this season is...we are now required to spend much more time prepping and that means less time having fun here. Nobody has fun clicking "advanced gunpowder" over and over. Some of us enjoy mining to a point, but the materials needed to make stuff means spending too much time mining vs. time we'll get to have fun using what we craft from all that mining.

It's a numbers thing. It's a math problem. It's time spent here vs time spent there. The most fun is fighting, so if crafting takes longer, our time investment needs to find its happiest midpoint.

So yeah...devs have made some awesome changes! I hope we can get crafting requirements shifted back in favor of the main goal - PvP combat fun!

[Jack Torrance]

@Marko
I second that, looks you got the point.

BUT... the problem is also that most people, I mean people who are not a gang members, still wanna have all this expensive stuff, like super armors, miniguns and everything to even START THINKING about PvP. I understand that gangs need all this tuff BADLY cause they won't be able to win a massive battle without this, but ususal players NOT ALWAYS need all of this to have fun with PvP.

I know I am a FO freak , truly, but I DON'T CRAFT (I mean I never had a crafting char), I got only 1 low-level alt with 3 CHA to be able to sell some stuff from encounters in shop and all I need to have fun is my 24 lev SG sniper.

SG sniper don't need SHIT to have fun in PvP. All you need is very very good build, max level, hunting rifle and some ammo that you take from encounters. When you got it you can be hunter for months and don't even thinking about crafting and all this crap. And I know that it's just because of this very specific type of char - that it works for SG sniper - and I know that sg sniper is VERY weak against many other battle chars BUT still it's an option for people who like PvP action and don't wanna become no-life because of crafting-shit. That's how I played FO in 2011 and I had a great fun in north towns, and that's how I'm gonna play FO again... Just my 2 cents

P.S. And maybe there are other types od battle chars, that I don't know, but like my SG sniper, don't need much crafting and stuff too.

EDIT: I would call my attitude like "get some tactical fighting skills goddamnit and have some fun" The 'other' attitude would be like "I will work soooo hard for weeks / months to get PvP stuff and when I'll get it I'll be too bored to spend more time in FO" Just jokeing of course, but you got the point.

[yoz]

^^ Amen to everything.

[Rascal]

agree
players need to spend tons of hours on some shitty crafting, farming, houres wasted on stupid blueprints hunting
to finally have some stuff to have some PvP fun... if I wasnt playing in SoT I dont know if I would have enough patience for all that crapp
over one month past since wipe and u can hardly meet anyone in desert encounters, especially PvP players...
I talked with major Turn Base PvP forces on wasteland and they are still on the crafting/gathering phase... its really sick....

[ToxiCAVE]

in 1 word...fix this fucking TC!!!!!!!

[Alexandrite]

Mostly, people are now leveling up and crating and stuff...

Ever since the wipe this has been going on...

[Marko]

Jack, i am a work-hard kinda guy who loves stocking up his own fresh-crafted warehouses full of the best gear, but now...i am about ready to agree with you.

I'm about ready to drop crafting altogether and only log into fighters and start kickin' some butt out there, rather than spend another moment subjecting myself to this new crafting-PK-bottleneck system that forces every high-end crafter to run past PKs, inevitably get murdered and robbed and personally stunned when 9 human beings act like little trolling vultures at Gunrunners, where you've spent hours running those metal cases to SF and back, only to have the whole process botched again because some rocket-jerk was there. Those guys could have crafted twice as much of their own in the same time and even make a friend out of me, a hard-workin' craftin' foo! But noooOOOOooo lol.

So yeah, a scoped hunting rifle is sounding good about now. Actually Jack, PM me and maybe we can hunt together - i have a L24 big gunner ready to go. 

[Shonsu]

turn-based co-op PvE is my favorite way to play.  I'm not twitchy enough to do well in PvP so it's never been all that fun for me. I got into it a little bit last era before pre-wipe madness but generally PvP is lots of tme spent twiddling your thumbs for like a minute (if you're luky) of quick action.

[avv]

agree
players need to spend tons of hours on some shitty crafting, farming, houres wasted on stupid blueprints hunting
to finally have some stuff to have some PvP fun... if I wasnt playing in SoT I dont know if I would have enough patience for all that crapp
over one month past since wipe and u can hardly meet anyone in desert encounters, especially PvP players...
I talked with major Turn Base PvP forces on wasteland and they are still on the crafting/gathering phase... its really sick....

That's just because players can't think of anything but pvp in best gear only. Devs want good gear to be hard to get, nothing wrong with that. The outcome is just that players won't participate in pvp until they got that best gear.

Personally I think pvp should be tied to getting gear in first place. At the moment you don't need to fight anyone to get blueprints or many other materials, just go grind for them in some forlorn place.

Putting crafting terminals in dangerous place is good, but pvp chars can't craft or carry enough materials so we have to send in our crafter alts and leave pvp alts on worldmap. The maps aren't particularly pvp friendly either, lots of grids and elevators to be camped.

[Solar]

The lower stuff is generally not so bad that you can't use it to compete, I'm sure if you outnumbered a PvP gang by 2:1 but came using hunting rifles, grease guns and LA you would stand a decent chance and have a fraction of the build up time.

Who were those guys who used to use throwing knives in TC?

Blueprints from TC seems like a decent idea, when we finally decide how TC should be fixed I'm sure we can include some.

[Perteks]

Who were those guys who used to use throwing knives in TC?

Know few of them and why they play like that ? Because they were bored

[Solar]

They didn't try something new to entertain themselves did themselves did they?! Won't someone please think of the Children?!

Anyway, throwing knives are about as powerful as Magnums ... plenty of low tier stuff is actually capable of killing other players, contrary to belief

[Perteks]

Magnum powerfull erm not in that game

Even bypass+jhp ammo are not soo powerfull

[Solar]

They do slightly more damage than a throwing knife, which was my point.

They are actually ~60-70% of the damage done to CA by a .223 or 14mm, its not like they are total pea shooters.