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Author Topic: TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.  (Read 900 times)

Crazy

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TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.
« on: January 23, 2012, 03:04:26 pm »

(I guess there will be heavy trolling, I would be grateful if everyone stay focused on the point of improving system rather than flaming each other)

So, I guess we all noticed there is few things that need to be added to improve the current TC system. Here is my proposition to make the current system more viable for everyone.

1-~influence should display the influence of the gang currently controlling the town as well as yours. If the town is yours, display influence of the gang which have the most after you.
2-Limit minimum influence to 0.
3-Limit maximum influence to 100.
4-The influence gain should decrease as you get more influence. For example, if you gain 0.5 each minute at 5 influence, you should gain 0.4 at 10, 0.3 at 20 etc... (random numbers of course, will need to be adjusted).
5-Each time you gain influence in a town, you decrease the influence of everyone else, except friendly factions. This should happen at a rate only affected by the number of your people, and be fast enough to be able to take the town of someone near 50 influence while starting at 0 in roughly 2 hours with 10 well equipped people.
6-Killing equipped (at least tier 2) members of a faction in a town while being equipped yourself (to prevent suicide bluesuit) should decrease their influence. The decrease is a bit too low right now. It should raise your own influence as well. The increase/decrease of influence by killing should be pretty important, making it interesting to actually win a fight when doing TC, even while loosing some people.
7-Being in TC zone to gain influence should be required. TC zone should cover the whole map, but no building at all, not the "buggy screen" zones, and no enclosed part of map(=part with only one access easily covered) (upper and left part of trapper town, above bank part of BH...).
8-Remove the ability to add mercs/slaves to militia. Except for that, militia is fine for me.




If anyone have other ideas, objections I would be happy to improve this suggestion. We all want a better TC. If someone want to insult/troll other gangs, he should GTFO.
Thanks you.
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Wichura

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Re: TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 04:50:18 pm »

(...) Remove (...) TC (...)
Good idea, this feature is pure nonsense anyway.

:>
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Re: TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 04:56:03 pm »

As i see things.

1 I think the ~influence should show the same thing as it does now. It would be simple for those who take town, just to have one information to read when taking town, and have this quickly. But one (anyone) should be able, when talking to the main npc of the town (Marcus, Jo etc...) to have the list of the ten factions who have the most influence in the town and all their value I, to know who has influence and how much. If it sounds to risky or harsh for those who hasn't the town or can't talk to the main npc, it should be added to the pibboy.

2 Agree
3 Agree

4 As i think things should work. Need to have at least 4 players characters to gain influence, just by standing in town. All characters count, except sneak, when they're sneaking, but their value count differently, depending of their equipment and experience. (armor, helmet, weapon, level). A level one unarmed bluesuit would gain 0.000001, while a level 24 character with an APA (and APA helmet) and a loaded gauss pistol would gain 0.001000. A follower get the same value, divided by 10. All characters together would have a gain and influence value X per minutes, plus this X value divided by their total influence.  Value X+X (=X*2)when influence is less than 2. Value X+X/2 (=X*1,5) when influence between 2 and 3. Value X+X/20 (=X*1,05)  when influence is at 20.Value X+X/50 (=X*1,02)  when influence is at 50. X+X/99 (=X*1,01)  when influence is at 99. No gain when influence is at 100.
You can never get influence, if your faction members (at least 4) never talked to the main npc, at least once. (you don't have to do  it again)

5 Dunno if it's good. I think it is better if your influence naturally decrease over time. Let's say 1 pt per day... It would be interresting if two faction can gain influence in the same time.

6 Killing a character from another faction will give to  the killer the value of this character in terms of influence, as said in 4 (0.000001 for a level one unarmed bluesuit, for instance), with a factor Y. (Character value * factor Y) Factor Y could be the faction influence of the character you killed)
All members of this faction count. You gain that influence directly from the faction who belongs the character you killed. If the faction has 100 influence, you gain more influence and it would be harder for the faction members killed to go back  to 100. If you kill someone who don't belong to any faction or belongs to a faction that hasn't influence, you take nothing from him. (or just the character value) At the opposite, if you have no faction, or if your faction has zero influence, you gain nothing for killing a faction member. And this faction member lose nothing (or just his character value) . The influence gain for killing only count if there is at least four member of both faction in town. There is no gain if you kill a loner from any faction. Also, sneak only count if you kill one, not if you kill when sneaking. Same with followers. A follower killed count the same as a player. Someone killed by a follower doesn't count. Same with militia. You also gain a character value*factor Y* factor Z (better than kill) influence if you let someone from other faction trade in the town you hold (and do other stuff) and leave the city alive. That way, the member from other faction don't lose influence. You still get influence if you let trade someone who don't belong to any faction. You also gain influence if you let sneak trade. If you have more than 15 influence, you also have more rewards in the chest, by letting people trade, mine and do other stuff.

7 Agree for borders of the map, and hotel room (or any area that can't be accessed by the ennemy during the fight). As for areas with limited entrances, i think we should let the testing process go further...

8 Dunno. I think we should keep adding  our followers in militia of town, but not all kind. Like trading now, you can add specific militian in specific town. For instance, no advanced armors and weapon in Klamath or Den, muties/humans/ghouls in Broke, Hills, Only ghouls in Gecko, only humans in Den, Klamath,  Redding. Only animals in Modoc...

9 If you hurt an npc in town (except a player's follower) you lose 0.000001 influence. If you kill it, you lose 0.001000. If you hold the town and hurt or kill your militian, it count the same. If you hurt the main npc (Marcus, Jo etc...) you lose 0.100000 influence. If you kill him, you lose 10.000000 influence. (can't go under 0.000000) If your followers or militians do the kill, you lose influence too.

10 When some faction gain 1 influence ( not 0.000001), there is a message emitted from the city, to all radio channels. So all character with a radio would know. If they don't want to hear that and be spammed by all influences messages, they can choose to limit the reception to a limited area outside the range of the city. So you could have accurate intelligence without being forced to hear it.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 05:38:43 pm by naossano »
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Re: TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 07:23:56 pm »

These are good ideas but TC rules should be clear and should give fair chance for defenders and for attackers. This are my thoughts:

Quote from: Crazy
1-~influence should display the influence of the gang currently controlling the town as well as yours. If the town is yours, display influence of the gang which have the most after you.
2-Limit minimum influence to 0.
3-Limit maximum influence to 100.
Ok.
Quote from: Crazy
4-The influence gain should decrease as you get more influence. For example, if you gain 0.5 each minute at 5 influence, you should gain 0.4 at 10, 0.3 at 20 etc... (random numbers of course, will need to be adjusted).
I think that gain of influence should be linear, same ammount in same time. It's clear also I don't like idea of standing in town another 2 hours to get last 10 influence points.
Quote from: Crazy
5-Each time you gain influence in a town, you decrease the influence of everyone else, except friendly factions. This should happen at a rate only affected by the number of your people
Ok, but let it be decreased to some level like 30 points so you can't take town so fast from 0 only by standing inside when defenders are absent.
Quote from: Crazy
be able to take the town of someone near 50 influence while starting at 0 in roughly 2 hours with 10 well equipped people.
I think 2-3 points per hour on every player should be good.
Quote from: Crazy
6-Killing equipped (at least tier 2) members of a faction in a town while being equipped yourself (to prevent suicide bluesuit) should decrease their influence. The decrease is a bit too low right now. It should raise your own influence as well. The increase/decrease of influence by killing should be pretty important, making it interesting to actually win a fight when doing TC, even while loosing some people.
Let's say 2 points per killed player, this way gang of 15 players lose all their influence in three beaten fights.
Quote from: Crazy
7-Being in TC zone to gain influence should be required. TC zone should cover the whole map, but no building at all, not the "buggy screen" zones, and no enclosed part of map(=part with only one access easily covered) (upper and left part of trapper town, above bank part of BH...).
Ok.
Quote from: Crazy
8-Remove the ability to add mercs/slaves to militia. Except for that, militia is fine for me.
To prevent abusing militia during TC killing militiants should also decrease influence like 0,5 - 1 point per each.

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Re: TC, what can be done to make the current system more viable.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 08:03:30 pm »

Fix beacon and make it appear with stops over time while enemy is taking your town so there not one big fat " someone is gaining influence in BH " all time on screen.

At this speed that you gain influence , i think it would be just easier to set maximum to some 60 so you don't have to adjust everything else related to it.

.Let's say 2 points per killed player, this way gang of 15 players lose all their influence in three beaten fights.

No , without any such features for now. TC needs to be played first at a normal state.

Ok.I think that gain of influence should be linear, same ammount in same time.

Agree if it won't work or it will be bad , then it could be readjusted some day. Linear should be first tested.

7-Being in TC zone to gain influence should be required. TC zone should cover the whole map, but no building at all, not the "buggy screen" zones, and no enclosed part of map(=part with only one access easily covered) (upper and left part
of trapper town, above bank part of BH...).

Yes , i don't want to see hotel/toilet control anymore.

8-Remove the ability to add mercs/slaves to militia. Except for that, militia is fine for me.

Agree. When this will happen ? When ghosthack asked us about how we want to see the new TC system , i'm quite sure all the community agreed that merc militia has to go.

5 Dunno if it's good. I think it is better if your influence naturally decrease over time. Let's say 1 pt per day... It would be interresting if two faction can gain influence in the same time.

I think it should decrease naturally and you should be able to decrease other faction influence while gaining it.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 08:19:44 pm by T-888 »
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