Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jangling]

The issue i have with no tagging may come down to perceived 'loner; in role-play.
For me, that means a lone gun man, but sometimes a gun for hire.
That means, you need to travel with people, many people roleplay like this. Get a job in NCR, travel with your new boss, but no real loyalties- waiting to get paid.

However maybe roleplaying a loner for others is forever alone on world map, trading on forum to meet in towns and combat.
Maybe there are other types of loners.

I think blocking a core mechanic like follow is crazy. its a multiplayer game, loner characters should be encouraged but in a multi-player way.

cant use science on hides, when loner is in map

Seems fair but then to counter balance that i think a concession such as loners are aloud more then one tent, its a big map after all.

[Solar]

I'm not sure how its been implemented, you're just meant to be unable to lead a party (so no slaves, mercs, etc or lead a group of people).

Does it currently stop you joining a party too?

[baaelSiljan]

guys You dont understand, do You? It doesn't mean forever alone, this mean they often meet in some places, encounters,  help each other in other way than walking toghether and killing all what is moving. You want to hire him, leave message on some board (I dont know if it is implemented if not another suggestion here) or find him in city shouting that You hire people, then tell him what to do and where to go (coords? or next suggestion mark on someones map some places - only when he got big outdoorsman). Loners aren't characters for fighting, more for survive.

And this is trait (negative meaning), someone who get it, will know what he is taking.
If You want to add some small things it doesn't make sense like now, if You allow them parting or party doesn't have noticable cons it may ends that loners will be walking in groups and form gangs (nonsense)...

Loners dont use taxi's, loners don't go into gang fights - they are outsiders, so pros and cons should cover it.

[JovankaB]

What would mad max be if he never interacted with other characters in the movie?

You can interact with people in towns and in random encounters.
You can do jobs for other people, just not travel along with them or sit in their hidden base.

You can't have traveling in party ability, or it WILL be used by gang alts (sharing locations etc) and proxying loners.
It opens too many possibilities to abuse the idea.

I'm not sure how its been implemented, you're just meant to be unable to lead a party (so no slaves, mercs, etc or lead a group of people).

What I meant was disabled tag button/option, which would be simple (I suppose) and take care of most of the team features.
 - if a no-loner uses context menu on a loner, the tag button is disabled (but visible)
 - if a loner uses context menu on anyone, the tag button is hidden

Note the difference. I think the button should be still visible but grayed out in the case no-loner uses context menu on a loner (maybe with "Loner" text on it or some other way to show why the button is disabled) because for no-loners the option sometimes would work and sometimes not (depends who they clicked). Loners clicking others can have the button hidden completely, because it would never appear in their interface. Is this confusing?

Anyway, this is client UI idea. Tagging loners should also be checked by server side script to prevent hacking.

I think there still would be a possibility to share car location/radio. This might be a problem, especially cars. But I don't exactly remember how remembering these locations work. If there is a way to make them work as a shared tent this shouldn't be possible for a loner.

This wouldn't prevent you from having NPC followers or to join NPC factions, because you don't tag anyone to do this. I suppose NPC factions are still necessary for some professions and I think loners should be able to take them. But maybe not.

Having mercs doesn't mean you are not a loner. They are not your friends, they work for you for money Same about slaves (especially slaves). But I think this is a problem of balancing merc build, not the loner trait, so I think NPC followers should be allowed.

Proposed trait description: You are a loner. You have a hard time working in teams, but [put bonus here]

[avv]

You can't have traveling in party ability, or it WILL be used by gang alts (sharing locations etc) and proxying loners.
It opens too many possibilities to abuse the idea.

But the idea is too ambitious. Not being able to have a base is a big tradeoff so you should get a good refine for that. However if you get a good refine, it's just another reason to make an alt. Character-based benefits will always create more alts.

And even if the benefit is something that would only help solo char player it would fail as feature because the mechanics still encourage alting in general. Features must be designed so that they match the actual gameplay, not so that they match some fantasy non-existing gameplay that we'd wish to have (Mad Max wannabes).

So small benefit for small tradeoff is in this case the best choice.

[baaelSiljan]

No matter how big are benefits, loner should be hard enough to prevent using it as alts, but good enough to play them as main char.

my points in summary
- hard to use as alt
- usable and quite big bonus for lonely play (every hour of play daily +bonus, but max is X hours only to get profits, and starts after Y hours)
- safe places where only loners may rent a cheap room (cafe of broken dreams map)
- ingame time based leveling
- no parties and gangs
- dog respawn with You
- de-rusted items, usable only for loners (normal detoration), when used by other very fast detoration, fixable only by loners, and price when selling derusted item should be very low, cause it brokes to often for normal people
- bigger carry weight (may be based on ingame time too)
- no access to bases
- no more than neutral karma (some max value reachable for loner only not to be hated)
- speech skill max 100%
- low charisma
- not allowed: Gain Charisma, Magnetic Personality, Negotiator, Gambler, Karma Beacon,
- bonus: Survivalist, Mr. Fixit, Pathfinder, Cautious Nature, Earlier Sequence, Faster Healing, Awareness, Explorer
- worst (maybe available on much higher levels): Strong Back, Thief, Pyromaniac, Master Thief, Lifegiver, Medic, Dodger, Bonus HtH Damage, Action Boy etc
- bonus for PvE, lower damage in PvP

You are forgetting that loner character is for those "fantasy" role players.

ingame time based leveling explained:

[JovankaB]

And even if the benefit is something that would only help solo char player it would fail as feature because the mechanics still encourage alting in general. Features must be designed so that they match the actual gameplay, not so that they match some fantasy non-existing gameplay that we'd wish to have (Mad Max wannabes).

There are Mad Max wannabes in this game, it would match their gameplay.
You probably don't see them, because most of them don't take part in mumbel-enabled gang PvP.

Base is a convenience because of workbench and enemy list, but not necessary.
Not having a base is not a huge trade-off for real loner chars who don't poweruse alts like you (*cough*).

I understand you don't like the idea, it would exclude you from this trait, because you are a big alter.
But your post gives me a hint for alters it would be too big inconvenience using it, which is good.



^
Of course I just used circumstantial ad hominem attack, which pretty much makes my post worthless.
Damn Christmas season, it triggered my honesty!

I guess my argument is that this trait, if properly balanced bonus and malus, wouldn't encourage alting.

[Solar]

A lot of these ideas are again going past what the trait is aiming for.

I don't want to doom people to what is essentially a single player out of towns.

I want to stop them using mercs (and joining gangs would be good too) and leading others around.

To trade off against this I want to make it easier for them to be self sufficient.

I think unable to be tagged, get mercs and join gangs vs +20% or so to science, repair, barter and an always respawning dog with 100% outdoors is somewhere in the right ballpark

[greece crisis]

Also, i call bullshit on this:

bullshit...well mr smart ass there is a lot of solo players who dont have any gang and they should have some chance against non experience pvp group

[pistacja]

I don't get it.
Why try to reinvent the wheel?

+Loner gets +10% to all rolls (skills, chance to hit, chance to crit, crit table, everything) when he/she/it is alone (as in alone on the map without any players, slaves, mercs, friendly or neutral npcs or within xyz hex - whatever is easer to implement).

-Loner gets -10% to all rolls when he/she/it is not alone.

Trait should stick to game mechanics and "unable to be tagged" seams something like "unable to right-click" or "unable to zoomout" or "can't use the letter P", that's silly.

[baaelSiljan]

I don't get it.
Why try to reinvent the wheel?

+Loner gets +10% to all rolls (skills, chance to hit, chance to crit, crit table, everything) when he/she/it is alone (as in alone on the map without any players, slaves, mercs, friendly or neutral npcs or within xyz hex - whatever is easer to implement).

-Loner gets -10% to all rolls when he/she/it is not alone.

Trait should stick to game mechanics and "unable to be tagged" seams something like "unable to right-click" or "unable to zoomout" or "can't use the letter P", that's silly.

because: "guys i'm going to do some crafter, it will be fast i will take loner trait" what is main reason why some people want to name this trait "alter"

[pistacja]

because: "guys i'm going to do some crafter, it will be fast i will take loner trait" what is main reason why some people want to name this trait "alter"

Still dont't get it.

If the 10% bonus/penalty is not a modifier visible on the character screen but actually done at a lower level dice roll
[pseudo-code]
if(loner)
   Random(10,110)
else
   Random(0, 100)
[/pseudo-code]

What would a crafter need a +10% on any rolls

Even if the boost would be +50%, it still would take longer to get from lv1 to lv16 for a loner-crafter then for a normal crafter+ lv20 flamer wielding B-guner. 

[JovankaB]

Interesting idea but it won't work. That's not how leveling up alts is done by most powerplayers.
You don't relog, you sit on your butt half a day and kill molerats/centaurs.
Then, after a few sessions like this, it is done and you don't care about XP any more.

Besides the xping "warmup" would be very frustrating for PvP players, and it really doesn't look fair.
They would have to kill stupid mobs for a few hours before they would start getting some good XP.
And they would still do this grinding or quit FOnline.

[baaelSiljan]

So maybe gaining exp only for 1-2 hours daily (casual players) and then stops, it would take much longer to exp than normal char, but stats bonus should be nice when exp is 0.

Otherhand there aren't any 100% bulletproof solutions, once long time ago I've played on 4 accounts at once so we need to make it boring and not profitable to use loner as alt.

PvP != Loner

Loner ~= Explorer, fun casual player

[JovankaB]

I was hoping for less frustration for loners, not more frustration for PvP gangs.

It's not a zero-sum game, at least I hope you can make it a bit easier for loner builds without making life of PvP more painful.

XPing penalties really is frustrating for PvP people who try new combat builds etc.