fodev.net
15.08.2009 - 23.06.2013
"Wasteland is harsh"
Home Forum Help Login Register
  • March 28, 2024, 10:34:15 am
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Play WikiBoy BugTracker Developer's blog
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Armor Class  (Read 13905 times)

Re: Armor Class
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 09:26:49 am »

Then have the game mechanics reason.

AC needs to be high to be useful. If there is high AC when standing then its only useful for snipers kiting.

I wanted AC. To be used for getting into range to help all lower range weapons - so it became AC when running only.

That it also makes sense in RL is just a happy coincidence

See now you're actually talking reason.
Logged

Wallace

  • "Not a bug. It's a feature"
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2011, 06:24:33 pm »

Then have the game mechanics reason.

(1)AC needs to be high to be useful. If there is high AC when standing then its only useful for snipers kiting.

(2)I wanted AC. To be used for getting into range to help all lower range weapons - so it became AC when running only.

(3)That it also makes sense in RL is just a happy coincidence

1 - Amen to that! (Havce you guys played "Lionheart"? It was codenamed Fallout Fantasy - RT only and instead of big resists there were massive AC - i recommend it if you haven't try it before)

2 - Well for games' sake i'll cease to argue about realism...

3 - ...as it's obviously lacking in that part (proven above) ;P
Logged

craft, Craft, CRAFT! (armors)
sometimes repair dismantle stuff
Roleplay!
...and most of all; DEATH TO NERFING!!!
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2011, 06:20:20 pm »

What's sense of AC in TB ?
Logged

Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2011, 08:09:24 pm »

What's sense of AC in TB ?

Is this even a serious question?

Solar

  • Rotator
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2011, 08:24:45 pm »

To gain the benefit of AC in turn based you need to be "running" too. Turn based running is using over half your AP to move in the previous turn
Logged
Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2011, 08:40:02 pm »

is using over half

Can you tell about this more accurately ?
Logged

Solar

  • Rotator
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2011, 10:05:25 pm »

I don't know how I could break it down more simply
Logged
Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.

JovankaB

  • Rotator
  • JovankaB
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2011, 10:38:43 pm »

Can you tell about this more accurately ?
If I understood correctly:

Let's say you have a build with 8 Action Points.
If you moved at least 5 hexes in the previous turn, you get the AC bonus, like you would be running in RT.

I must say it's a pretty smart way to represent running in TB.
I wonder if devs implemented unsneaking in TB this way too (without silent running perk).
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 10:45:28 pm by JovankaB »
Logged
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2011, 11:49:14 pm »

Solar said "over half". An axample i have 10 ap. Then for AC-bonus i need move on 5 or on 6 AP ?
Logged

wladimiiir

  • Rotator
  • Independent FOnline developer
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2011, 09:38:43 am »

I rather walk then run in the game. Will AC be taken into account if I am not running but just walking?

pistacja

  • Ninja-Nurse
    • pistacja69.deviantart.com
  • Offline
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2011, 10:49:52 am »

What about bonus move? If you have 8 ap +2 for walking do you need to move 5 or 6 hex?

What about first turn? If one was running befor TB kicked in will one get AC?

Is the AC down to 0, or down to only armor-provided AC?

In RT  the AC drop is instand or  is there some delay?


It's kind of hard for me to imagine the use of AC now other then running to the grid.
Sure in a situation where you have to move far to get im range ac would be a bonus...but a bonus worth few perks? Even for melee +100AC will be little use at point blank vs burst...and if it is then a melee fighter has to one-hit a enemy or next turn he won't have any AC or less then half AP  to attack.

I wanted to play a jinxed dogger post wipe, but now I don't :(
 

Logged
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2011, 11:35:29 am »

What about bonus move? If you have 8 ap +2 for walking do you need to move 5 or 6 hex?

What about first turn? If one was running befor TB kicked in will one get AC?

Is the AC down to 0, or down to only armor-provided AC?

In RT  the AC drop is instand or  is there some delay?


It's kind of hard for me to imagine the use of AC now other then running to the grid.
Sure in a situation where you have to move far to get im range ac would be a bonus...but a bonus worth few perks? Even for melee +100AC will be little use at point blank vs burst...and if it is then a melee fighter has to one-hit a enemy or next turn he won't have any AC or less then half AP  to attack.

I wanted to play a jinxed dogger post wipe, but now I don't :(
 



When the critter's turn begins: save the current position as pos1.
When the critter's turn ends: denote the current position as pos2. Until the critter's next turn, the critter is considered running if and only if
Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2,
where
  • Distance(pos1,pos2) means actual distance between the two hexes. It is not exactly related to the number of hexes the critter have travelled. If you move 1 hex and then return to the original position, it counts the same as if no move was done at all.
  • action_points_left are leftover points from the turn. In previous mechanics, these were simply added to critter's AC until its next turn (or end of TB combat).
  • max_action_points is obvious.

I once asked almost the same questions, but answer are obvious:

1) Bonus move won't affect anything, because APs from Bonus move aren't APs. So if you'll have bonus move, it'll be good, as you can change your position and then spend all your APs on shooting/doing actions and get AC bonus even when you moved only few hexes spending all APs on shooting for example.

2) Can't remember where, but I read somewhere that 1st turn considered if you were running, so you'll get bonus AC, unfortunately can't prove now. May be find quote later.

3) Armors will make AC negative or won't affect at all. So... you'll have 0 AC when not moving or N AC when moving where N is your AG*3 (or *6 with perk) +dodger perks if have any +HtH evade perk if requirements are met -AC from armor if any.

4) Haven't played CBT, but some guy "reported" bug that his AC always changed when he moved (seems like he didn't know about AC thing), so it means it changes instantly, I think.

To gain the benefit of AC in turn based you need to be "running" too. Turn based running is using over half your AP to move in the previous turn
Not entirely true.
Judging from formula, you don't have to move all the time, you need to change position, so you can knock back yourself with grenade while spending 0 APs on moving and will get AC. The same thing with bonus move, you can always move without spending APs changing your position.

Can you tell about this more accurately ?
More accurately it means... over the half ;p
It means more than half.
It means if you have 10 AP, you need to move more than half, so more than 5 AP. More than 5 AP means 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10.
But it's not always truth, as I already said about bonus move perks and knock backs.
In other words:
You standing in some hex at start of your turn.
Then you throw a grenade into someone in point blank and it knock backs you on for example 3 hexes back.
The distance between you and your starting hex is 3 hexes now.
You spent 0 APs on moving, however you moved.
You're throwing another grenade just to spend all your APs completely.
I can't remember how many APs needed for throw, but for example - 3 (with BRoF), so you have max 6 AP.
Now formula (Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2):
3+0 >= 3. You're getting AC without even moving.

And the most simple example:
You.. simply don't move at all... just skip turn.
0+6 >= 3. Yes, you'll get AC, judging from formula.

And just throw 1 grenade and skip turn.
0+3 >= 3. You'll get AC too.
Logged
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2011, 04:13:28 pm »


It means more than half.
It means if you have 10 AP, you need to move more than half, so more than 5 AP. More than 5 AP means 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10.

I can't remember how many APs needed for throw, but for example - 3 (with BRoF), so you have max 6 AP.
Now formula (Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2):
3+0 >= 3. You're getting AC without even moving.


I have 10.
I used 5 on move and 5 on burst from SMG.
5+0 >= max_action_points/2 (10/2=5)

Where i am wrong ?

For example i have 12 ap + 4 ap (2 bonuses move) = 16. Is it mean that i need use 4 ap from bonus + 2 from main AP for get AC ?
Logged
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2011, 05:14:46 pm »

Where i am wrong ?
Yes, you're not wrong, I was explaining Solar's post about "more than half", without searching for formula 1st, then I wanted to answer to pistacja and moved it all on top of post.
Actually it's not more than half, it's half or more. And you don't need to spend them on move, you can also don't spend them at all, or you can even spend some of them on other actions if you were knocked back or moved by some other reason, if this formula won't be changed.
I think Bonus move perk won't be included, as it's not regular APs, if only again, formula won't be changed.
Also it requires testing, for example:
You stand on some hex, then shoot, then move to grid which is near, then enter that enc again (for example you see this enc because of radio signal or car), you enter and it still your turn, you shoot again and your turn ends, you're standing in totally other position, may be there can be 30 hexes distance between these 2 hexes, so you'll get AC, may be.
Logged
Re: Armor Class
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2011, 06:14:47 pm »

Youre wrong about one thing Ravenous.
You quoted formula, and there is something like that: "when critters turn begins...", so it means, that doesnt matter if you get shot by RL, or grenade from other critter/player, because its not YOUR turn then. You can still try to knock out yourself, but... well, its trololo so maybe you can try:P
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
 

Page created in 0.079 seconds with 18 queries.