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Author Topic: Changes for some perks..  (Read 7815 times)

runboy93

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Changes for some perks..
« on: December 12, 2011, 06:05:41 pm »

Bonus Rate of Fire, Bonus HtH Attacks = 225% SG/Unarmed skill need to take -> 180% should be more than enough.
Blessed Are the Weak = 125% FA -> Something like 100% sounds better.
Hit the Gaps = 150% Unarmed -> 180% same amount as Bonus HtH attacks.
Lifegiver = 5EN -> 6EN, nobody takes 5EN.
Lifegiver+ = 6EN -> 7EN, because now normal lifegiver got 6EN requirement.
Lifegiver++= 7EN -> 8EN, because lifegiver+ got 7EN requirement.
Medic = 175% FA -> 150% FA

What you think about these?

avv

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 06:28:13 pm »

What I don't understand with lifegiver is that why does it require high endurance to take when those who have low endurance need it most?

FA perk requirements are indeed very high. That's because now that level cap is 24 (more skillpoints) and no combat perk has intelligence requirement players will choose as low intelligence as possible to just get the gunskill at good level and then perhaps some doctor. 150FA is pretty rare in current nonwiped version, let alone 175. After wipe with these settings players might not invest to fa at all.
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 06:38:39 pm »

Bonus Rate of Fire, Bonus HtH Attacks = 225% SG/Unarmed skill need to take -> 180% should be more than enough.
Lifegiver = 5EN -> 6EN, nobody takes 5EN.
Lifegiver+ = 6EN -> 7EN, because now normal lifegiver got 6EN requirement.
Lifegiver++= 7EN -> 8EN, because lifegiver+ got 7EN requirement.

What you think about these?

About bonus rate of fire and HtH , yes they need to be lowered.

Lifegiver should be like 4en , 6en , 8en , nobody sets uneven values for endurance , maybe only new players and that's a mistake.

FA perks , well they can be as high they are right now , but one thing doesn't make sense why all those perks require only FA .... for example blessed for the weak should require doc since it's the skill that depends on healing weakness at all.

What I don't understand with lifegiver is that why does it require high endurance to take when those who have low endurance need it most?

Yes , the same goes for strong back perk , only concerning str.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 06:42:06 pm by T-888 »
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 01:54:15 am »

perks are what you get for being exceptional, not for being unexceptional. They make you better at what you're good at rather than overcoming what you're poor at.

Re: Blessed are the weak. It makes sense as it is to me. Your FA skills  are just so good that you've learned to perform it even if someone is weakened.
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 08:36:40 am »

I HAVE IDEA. leave perks just what they are but change lvl when you can get them.
for example lvl3 - lg
lvl 6 or 9 - lg
lvl 12 - lg

and someone who need lg most and dont know wchich perk should he take on lvl 3-6 will be fine.
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 08:43:47 am »

they should change lvl when you can get 1rst and 2nd live giver.
for example 1rst lg - lvl 3/6
2nd lg - lvl 6/9
3rg lg - lvl 15

because sometime you will have to lvl up more about 1 or 2 lvl more to get needed reuires for some perks like more crits/brd and others. I am worried that many players who didt know how to build char after wipe wont be able to take right perk at current lvl
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 08:46:33 am by italian moustache »
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Wichura

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 08:48:31 pm »

Speaking of requirements:
Quote
Bonus HtH Attacks       18      Melee/Unarmed 225%      HtH attacks cost 1 less AP
Who in Cthulu's name would ever put 225% in these skills, when ~175% is already enough to get these fancy hits like Haymaker, Piercing Strike and stuff?
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runboy93

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 08:58:22 pm »

They just force everyone take high IN...
This is just too much :/ 225%.. damn it takes all SPs only, if you got 5-7IN

DocAN.

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 09:14:04 pm »

who cares about BROF, You want to know how to shot faster? Rise Your IN coz knowledge is they way.
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runboy93

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 09:50:29 pm »

who cares about BROF, You want to know how to shot faster? Rise Your IN coz knowledge is they way.
I don't know who cares about BROF.. not me :/ I don't even dare touch guns anymore..
What I do care is HtH attacks. And you suggest to take fast shot? But then you cannot hit other parts than torso and criticals will fail. Criticals+DMG is everything ingame.
Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 09:01:28 am »

sure try to punch someone in ca/++dodger/man of steel/jinxed
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 11:39:37 am »

Of course I wasn't in CBT, so probably to hit chance formula could be changed, but if not, then:
Speaking of requirements:Who in Cthulu's name would ever put 225% in these skills, when ~175% is already enough to get these fancy hits like Haymaker, Piercing Strike and stuff?
You created an unarmed troll who's supposed to run in bluesuit and kill innocents with haymaker. So you come to some unguarded town, and there, you see some random bluesuiter shoveling brahmin shit, you think: oh, now I'll teach him how to shovel shit in unguarded town. You're running to him, standing in front of him, aiming his eyes and miss, then again and again, then he laughs at your worthless attempts, you're trying to hit his torso at least, but again miss and miss.


10 AG, livewire, x2 dodgers and hth evade will give him 140 AC. So if you want to kill him with your fists in the eyes with 175% unarmed, you'll have -140-95-30+175 = -90% to hit in the eyes and -90%+30%= -60% to hit in the torso.
Damn 5% to hit in the torso! He's invulnerable to your trolling! He still can shovel shit even when you're trying to kill him, because he made even better troll build than you and now trolling you by not-dying.
You need to increase your unarmed skill on 90+95=185% to have 95% to hit in the eyes, it means you need to have 175+185=360% unarmed, damn but you can't get unarmed higher than 300! So max possible chance to hit is 95%-60%= 35% in the eyes and 65% in the torso, if you'll have 300% unarmed. So make 10 INT character, get all SP into unarmed, may be you'll kill someone.
So 225% unarmed requirement seems good.
The same with BRoF 225% requirements, I don't know how much AC will decrease armor, but if jacket will decrease it even a bit, then best armor will be bluesuit (in OBT bluesuit is good because of 0 weight/no drop/look like poor troll making your victim rage/immun to bypasses, after wipe it'll also make you invulnerable to fail builds with < ~250% combat skill!), 120 AC (or 140 AC if you can spend few SPs on unarmed for HtH evade perk (you need only 75% unarmed, it's not much) and then move your scoped hunting rifle (most accurate weapon in the game against other dodgers like you) from inventory to main hand slot when need to shoot), if range formula isn't changed (-4% per hex), if limbs/eyes to hit isn't changed (-60% for eyes for example), if ammo won't decrease AC on very very much, then:
A sniper with sniper rifle need to kill you on ~30th hex for example (I won't talk about 50 hexes, because it's obviously miss miss miss)
ideal sniper for best tohit% (10PE+sharp+10IN+10AG) will need to have:
140+30x4+95=355% penalty for AC and range and 95% to hit chance in the torso at least
9*16=144% bonus for sniper rifle and 10pe+sharp
355-144=211% SG skill to have 95% to hit in the torso at 30 hexes range, 271% SG for the eyes.
Also ammo -AC mod, but I don't know what it'll be after wipe.
Well it's still possible to kill dodger at ~30 hexes range with sniper rifle, argh.
Now for BGers (with 10PE+sharp lol)
Same penalty: 355%
9*8=72% bonus.
355-72=283% BG skill if not take into account -AC ammo mod to hit troll dodger in bluesuit with 95% chance on 30th hex in the torso. With BG 225% (min requirement for BRoF), you'll have 95% to hit in the torso only at 283%-225%=58 /4 = 14 hexes. So after 14th hex, you'll have on 4% less and less chance to hit with each hex. So sniper, with all AC perks including hth evade, who's always running with bare hands keeping his scoped hunting rifle in inventory and wear bluesuit will survive better than BA snipers at long range, if not, then if only ammo will have really high -AC mod, so high that dodger perks will be useless.

Edit:
Well, AC is kinda useless against unarmed, cause if you are hit in HtH, you are probably not running.
Ah damn, I didn't take this into account, trash this post then ;p
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 11:50:10 am by RavenousRat »
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Crazy

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 11:43:00 am »

Well, AC is kinda useless against unarmed, cause if you are hit in HtH, you are probably not running.
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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 12:01:38 pm »

so thnx god for splash damage ;] you forget about jinxed, mele boxer would break his arms in the air ;] this would be ultra mega troll build ;]
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Solar

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Re: Changes for some perks..
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2011, 02:00:10 pm »

Bonus Hth/RoF could do with coming down a bit.

I can't remember what the new HP equation will be, if it still means odd En is useless then it should change, rather than keep LG on evens

Higher FA is its own reward anyway, not sure if the requirements need to come down. They should be for medics, not combat builds with some FA.
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