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Author Topic: Moonwalk bug is solved?  (Read 10323 times)

Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 11:28:19 pm »

Moonwalk is due to the network protocol of the game using TCP as its transport layer.
It's flawed by design and can't be fixed.
see this if you want to know more: http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game-programmers/udp-vs-tcp/
The key sentence of the article: "Using TCP is the worst possible mistake you can make when developing a networked game!"

Nothing more to add.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 02:28:08 am »

So u where working about this connection thing devs?
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Michaelh139

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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 04:20:47 am »

Moonwalk is due to the network protocol of the game using TCP as its transport layer.
It's flawed by design and can't be fixed.
see this if you want to know more: http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game-programmers/udp-vs-tcp/
The key sentence of the article: "Using TCP is the worst possible mistake you can make when developing a networked game!"

Nothing more to add.
Besides can it be changed to something more stable?
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 01:58:13 pm »

Moonwalk is due to the network protocol of the game using TCP as its transport layer.
It's flawed by design and can't be fixed.
see this if you want to know more: http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game-programmers/udp-vs-tcp/
The key sentence of the article: "Using TCP is the worst possible mistake you can make when developing a networked game!"

Nothing more to add.

That's just wrong. 
Did you know WoW, EVE online, Guild Wars and many more use TCP/IP?
The only alternative to TCP is UDP, but devs would need to build a reliable layer on top of UDP and that's a pain, moreover when the bandwidth is used to its max more and more UDP datagrams will get lost (UDP pumps packets as fast as it can, no mater if it has 1 or 100 connections), that means more and more datagrams will have to be resend (and it's up to the software layer to decide what packets were lost, the network layer has no idea) the effect is that any amount of lag will cause a bigger amount of lag - so one player with a bad connection=lag for the whole server. TCP works differently - when there's a "traffic jam" at one end TCP will limit speed with that client - one client will have lag, but the rest will not notice. There's another little know flaw in UDP - hardware. Routers, when the traffic is high, will drop UPD packets in the first place.

I'm not saying UPD is bad for games, hell no! It's the best for fpp shooters and fast action games. I'm just saying TCP is a good and valid option for a mmo like fonline and if someone says it's a mistake to use TCP then he is the one mistaken.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 02:53:37 pm »

Fonline is not a fast action game? We must have been playing different games. Or u are doing turn based only.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 03:47:33 pm »

Or u are doing turn based only.
Got me there  ;D

But fo is not that fast, especially with the moonwalk. 

If you compare fonline with a fpp shooter, then the 'bitrate' of needed updates makes fo a slow action game. In fo a player position, location or state is quantized (finite, integer -he/she can only be at a given hex and nowhere in between, facing one of six fixed directions), all players move at a fixed rate (well two rate - walk or run), shots are calculated at the shooting frame so there is no need to update a projectiles position and test it for collisions. So if a step (a move from hex 1 to hex 2) takes 0.5sec then for movement you only need the server running at 2 frames per second. I'd be suprised if the fonline server run at more the 8-10fps. For a fpp-type game you need x,y, and z position and x,y, z rotation as a floating point to determine a players position and orientation (or a 4x4? matrix for quaternion), fpp game servers run at 16-20fps, but I wouldn't be surprised if some ran at the same rate as a client game (~60fps).   

Anyway, it's getting offtopic, and I don't know enough to be saying how the fonline server works internally. 
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 04:19:57 pm »

UDP itself is useless, so to use it you have to build your own code on it, where TCP comes with pretty much everything ready. That's pretty much the only reason to use TCP in game, but much of the overhead from TCP you never need, because games almost never require all the packets to be delivered (like parts of movement can be left undelivered, because new data will overwrite them anyway) and usualy don't need to come in specific order.
Fonline is fine on TCP, but would still benefit from more specialized system built on UDP.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2011, 04:24:06 pm »

but much of the overhead from TCP you never need, because games almost never require all the packets to be delivered (like parts of movement can be left undelivered, because new data will overwrite them anyway) and usualy don't need to come in specific order.

This is the problem. Fonline way to move players do need to have right order reception and new data do not overwrite undelivered one.
This together with slow sync rate (only on shoot or other action) lead to bug such as moonwalking.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2011, 06:01:35 pm »

So u where working about this connection thing devs?
Or maybe you should get better internet connection ::)
It's not always side of server, can be also you connection.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:09:10 am by runboy93 »
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 06:08:58 am »

Or maybe you should ger better internet connection ::)
It's not always side of server, can be also you connection.
I have a good net connection.  200 ping.  I still get moonwalk.  Frequently.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2012, 08:52:39 pm »

Some dev can answer this please? This bug can be solved or not?
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Michaelh139

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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2012, 03:21:35 am »

150 ping average here.  Moonwalk alot as well.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2012, 02:54:06 am »

300 ping and im in Mexico :P but moonwalk only happens me when i receive a misile also i play when normally there is only 80-100 players online, hell but i can play full matches of BF3 without any problem with any european server while downloading porno anything, so lame anyway.

Plus,devs didnt say anything about solve the problem ;D
A "we dont care" would be enough to kill our useless hope
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 02:56:50 am by Reiniat »
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2012, 11:06:41 am »

300 ping and im in Mexico :P but moonwalk only happens me when i receive a misile also i play when normally there is only 80-100 players online, hell but i can play full matches of BF3 without any problem with any european server while downloading porno anything, so lame anyway.

Plus,devs didnt say anything about solve the problem ;D
A "we dont care" would be enough to kill our useless hope

I get 180 ping and i live in Mexico too, but still i get the Moonwalk problem.
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Re: Moonwalk bug is solved?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 12:00:40 pm »

Plus,devs didnt say anything about solve the problem ;D
A "we dont care" would be enough to kill our useless hope

Well, we can't. If it's an engine problem, it should be posted at the fonline.ru forum. Then cvet might see it earlier and will think about this.
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