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[T-888]

The recent loss of MAmk2 and lsw reminded me of an feature used in other MMO - half wipe.

My suggestion is to half wipe the server , delete all items , it means everything except collector items , delete all bank accounts from the broken bank system ,  all characters stay , bases , tents etc. etc. but you could reset the base system and delete tents too if devs wish too for some reason.

This idea is from a game called ultima online a particular server that used this kinda of feature and it had full wipes and half wipes. The server had the same problems as we do have in fonline , people hoard ridiculous amounts of stuff so that " economy " seizes to exist , people don't interact much because everyone have shitloads of stuff anyway(for example mining places pretty much empty) , only rare items being the main thing to sell/buy as we do in fonline right now and more things , as people have everything it's really hard to see new economy changes kick in for example vendor prices , item amount sold etc. etc. or now the new crafting changes. btw people there played with multiple characters too and dual , multi log wasn't prohibited.

I just can't explain every single detail what this feature can bring , but it's good back then it was like a birthday for everyone the server just lit up and server population raised.

I don't expect to people recognize this feature as something " whoooah cool , i want this " , because this is something new and should be discussed.

[avv]

Wiping won't increase interaction. Need something? Get it yourself, alts make it possible.

Players get items so that they can do something with them. They hoard items so that they can come back with new set if they die. You won't have good pvp if your enemies run out of gear all the time. If you think people will fight more furiously because they "must win" they won't. They just spend more time farming, use crappier gear and silly bluesuit strategies or go completely underground.

[Wichura]

Even if I do have 100 bas so what? Doesn't mean someone can just come and grab them, they are my property.

Right, people won't fight for items, no sir.

Half wipe doesn't sound that bad, at least if there's lot of people waiting for it, no matter what chages it will (or not) bring. Hoarding stuff can be goal for itself, I mean almost none of NCR vultures ever use crap they grabbed/stolen/taken anyway. Wiping stuff and bases with characters remaining was never tested here before, so why not.

And what about characters level? Wipe them too or leave at 21th?

[OskaRus]

OMG guys. Wipe is not for wipe. Wipe is to allow mayor game changes to be introduced. The fact that fonline have no economy at all should not be fixed by wipe itself.

[RavenousRat]

To not bother devs, bring me to your base, I'll science all items for you, as for ammo, don't know, give it to me, I'll sell it to doctor for rep. Then I'll repeat it with all bases and lvl my new troll alt to 21st lvl by dismantling items.
Then what will be changed? Nothing, except for everyone will need some more time to get all those items... again...
So what's the point of that suggestion?

[avv]

Right, people won't fight for items, no sir.

Half wipe doesn't sound that bad, at least if there's lot of people waiting for it, no matter what chages it will (or not) bring. Hoarding stuff can be goal for itself, I mean almost none of NCR vultures ever use crap they grabbed/stolen/taken anyway. Wiping stuff and bases with characters remaining was never tested here before, so why not.

And what about characters level? Wipe them too or leave at 21th?

That text of mine you quoted basically meant: "Don't fuck with me". You see most players who do have stuff don't actually care about it but they do care if someone tries to take it. It's the principle that matters.

If you wipe chars, well then you have lots of players in world encounters somewhere unseen, hunting molerats and centaurs.

OMG guys. Wipe is not for wipe. Wipe is to allow mayor game changes to be introduced. The fact that fonline have no economy at all should not be fixed by wipe itself.

Exactly. People want wipe because it brings new interesting features to try out.
Lack of items don't create economy, the methods to get items rule out whether or not an economy will be formed. A single player can get all the materials he need alone by using alts and spending time.

[Hololasima]

Half wipe will bring nothing. Personally i wait for update, not for deleting items and characters.

[T-888]

Wiping won't increase interaction. Need something? Get it yourself, alts make it possible.

First of all things i should remind is that not everyone is a dual logger and goes on mining trips with 4 characters at the same time. Alts make it possible but it's kinda hard to be self sufficient even if you have all the alts.

You can craft everything , but there is one thing players can't craft and that is money. Since this would help developers see how the new crafting system works and how economy works under circumstances that there is no broken bank system and if they would fix things like 5mm stealing , it would be really interesting how things go.

Wipe will increase interaction! No one will have a single piece of equipment , so everyone will gather resources to make what they can , some will be able to make everything but a big part of players will still need to buy stuff from other players - interaction. What are the most important resources for making equipment to fight ? HQ ore , minerals , where do we get them ? Mines , so they will be filled , pk's and apk relationship will sky rocket. What are good ways to obtain caps , since there would be no broken bank system and maybe some features fixed ? TC and trading with players , players offer more than traders and TC is self explanatory , where do you think big factions will get the money to buy cars , use mercs etc. etc. ? - TC !

I can pump out more examples if this doesn't satisfy you.

Players get items so that they can do something with them. They hoard items so that they can come back with new set if they die. You won't have good pvp if your enemies run out of gear all the time. If you think people will fight more furiously because they "must win" they won't. They just spend more time farming, use crappier gear and silly bluesuit strategies or go completely underground.

Players make items to fight - yes ! They hoard items so that they can upkeep fighting - yes ! Do players get items so they can sell them and make caps or trade for other items ? - YES ! Will this make pvp interesting since no one will have gazilion BA's in bases - YES ! etc. etc.

Low tech fighting is good  , wouldn't you mind to fight with something else then the usual avenger , ba , RL and sniper rifle ? As far as i know a lot of people here like low tech fighting because it gives the feeling of true wasteland or something

Right, people won't fight for items, no sir.

Half wipe doesn't sound that bad, at least if there's lot of people waiting for it, no matter what chages it will (or not) bring. Hoarding stuff can be goal for itself, I mean almost none of NCR vultures ever use crap they grabbed/stolen/taken anyway. Wiping stuff and bases with characters remaining was never tested here before, so why not.

And what about characters level? Wipe them too or leave at 21th?

Exactly , this why we still see looter proxies

The bold part is just gold.

Characters stay on 21th.

OMG guys. Wipe is not for wipe. Wipe is to allow mayor game changes to be introduced. The fact that fonline have no economy at all should not be fixed by wipe itself.

We are talking about half wipe no the actual wipe , this half wipe can be used for major-minor changes that allows developers to test and readjust features of economy and other minor stuff more frequently and therefore making a better game , don't you want this ? If not - why ?

bla bla bla troll troll bla bla bla bla bla bla troll troll bla bla bla troll troll

Thank you for a very good post that fulfills this discussion.

Exactly. People want wipe because it brings new interesting features to try out.
Lack of items don't create economy, the methods to get items rule out whether or not an economy will be formed. A single player can get all the materials he need alone by using alts and spending time.

It would still bring new features and give reason for players to play , maybe not as intensive as the big wipe , but it is still a lot better than nothing.

Lack of items will create circumstances to see how the economy is reached , the actual process not the result - everyone has crapload of stuff and everyone can get everything is complete nonsense can you stop repeating this ?


People please be opened minded and think about this from more than one point of view.

[Michaelh139]

If the goal is to bring the population back up I'm not so sure this will work. 

"the wipe is near" feel being around, if everything is wiped, no one will bother working to get their shit back together, with the idea that it'll all be fully wiped "soon".

I dunno, maybe.  Couldn't hurt to try maybe.

[T-888]

If the goal is to bring the population back up I'm not so sure this will work. 

"the wipe is near" feel being around, if everything is wiped, no one will bother working to get their shit back together, with the idea that it'll all be fully wiped "soon".

I dunno, maybe.  Couldn't hurt to try maybe.

We could argue about if it will bring back population for hours , we have to see how this works.

Even if it wouldn't skyrocket the population , i think a minimal increase can be expected and that would be good for everyone. At least for existing players something to do.

Only now a developer asked us how we want town control after wipe  , the rumor about wipe started how long ago 7 , 8 months ago ? Look what it has done to server , the lowest average player count in the last year , the server is loosing players rapidly. I don't know how long this will take but i don't expect wipe in the next two months. Anyway this half wipe can happen after wipe too , for example after 4 or 5 months after the actual wipe.

Sure this all sounds " unsure " , but you can't always be sure for everything that hasn't been tested , will developers see this as an good opportunity or maybe lexx will come and say that he doesn't like one part of all this.

btw it would prevent people of hoarding ridiculous amount of equipment at any time , any circumstances , especially now. Think about it why do you want shitloads of equipment for your base or tent as just a decoration that will never be used and most probably deleted after a while(by a while i mean close to a half year) ?

I stay here because i admire 2238 , i don't go play other servers because i want to support this project , give suggestions at least try to make a difference ,  support the server population , i don't want this community to split up and each day it becomes more thinner because tons of players are " waiting wipe " and some of them may just find another server and don't come back in the end.

[avv]

You can craft everything , but there is one thing players can't craft and that is money. Since this would help developers see how the new crafting system works and how economy works under circumstances that there is no broken bank system and if they would fix things like 5mm stealing , it would be really interesting how things go.

What are the most important resources for making equipment to fight ? HQ ore , minerals , where do we get them ? Mines , so they will be filled , pk's and apk relationship will sky rocket.

Might or might not. They may have few clashes that decide who has the control. After that the winning side will get lots of gear and the losing side not only gets nothing but also loses stuff so they go underground. It's because the way fights go in fonline. If one side is dominating, it will dominate as long as the players stay active. Even if the losing side puts up "furious and unyielding resistance" it will be simply countered with equally furious countermeasures. That's because the winning side is rich and only thing left to do is to fight for the sake of fighting.
This leads to dodging actions by the weaker gangs: late night or early morning captures, bluesuit retardness, escapes, logoffs or gear dismantling in tc and trying to avoid open combat. It's because when gang goes to war, it hits one place with full force and the weaker side knows they don't stand a chance.
Situation might be differend if the sides are equal and stay that way. Or there are so many participating gangs that the dominating one simply can't keep up. Can't remember if that has ever happened. In fonline history it's always been either one gang dominating whole wasteland, a dominating alliance of gangs sharing towns or like now: so much stuff that having towns don't even matter so tc is done for the sake of fighting.

What are good ways to obtain caps , since there would be no broken bank system and maybe some features fixed ? TC and trading with players , players offer more than traders and TC is self explanatory , where do you think big factions will get the money to buy cars , use mercs etc. etc. ? - TC !

If a gang dominates in tc, it dominates in everything it decides to do. So only reason to trade caps is if they simply won't bother to craft and farm all the gear.
But hard to say, you may have something here. It all depends on how the tc goes with the set of gangs that would participate in it. The beginning of this wipe was ruined by bos pickpocket and bank interest so there didn't exist a real fights over caps.

Players make items to fight - yes ! They hoard items so that they can upkeep fighting - yes ! Do players get items so they can sell them and make caps or trade for other items ? - YES ! Will this make pvp interesting since no one will have gazilion BA's in bases - YES ! etc. etc.

But in the beginning everyone has nothing. Nobody will sell stuff if they don't have good ammount of it, I doubt someone will sell every item of one type he has if he needs them himself. And most wanted items are those that everyone needs. In fonline history the best merchants have been those who are super rich and got nothing else to do. Cajuns trading company existed in the beginning of this wipe and even I used their services. It was pure player interaction but the problem was that in the beginning I was poor and couldn't keep up with their prices. And they were selling stuff they would have needed themselves. 
So even if you are completely right about this increase of player interaction it can be surely said that it won't last. The nature of fonline and its players is that items get hoarded and BA carpets will be formed in every base.

Low tech fighting is good  , wouldn't you mind to fight with something else then the usual avenger , ba , RL and sniper rifle ? As far as i know a lot of people here like low tech fighting because it gives the feeling of true wasteland or something

I was talking about bluesuits in pipe rifles trying to get a lucky crit on guy with ba and avenger, then looting  and leaving to worldmap. This leads to the rich guys simply staying in worldmap because it's not worth fighting against low geared people due to the risk balance. So rich gang will end up waiting until someone has enough gear to challenge them. That happened during this wipe: gang x ran out of metal armors and tc gear so gang y had to nothing to do while gang x was farming.

People please be opened minded and think about this from more than one point of view.

Even with all that's been said against this - at this point everything test-related is worth doing.

[Kilgore]

Personally, I would stop playing and gladly join the crowd that is waiting for wipe since x months. And I doubt that I'd be the only one acting like that :>

[T-888]

Might or might not. They may have few clashes that decide who has the control. After that the winning side will get lots of gear and the losing side not only gets nothing but also loses stuff so they go underground. It's because the way fights go in fonline. If one side is dominating, it will dominate as long as the players stay active.Even if the losing side puts up "furious and unyielding resistance" it will be simply countered with equally furious countermeasures. That's because the winning side is rich and only thing left to do is to fight for the sake of fighting. This leads to dodging actions by the weaker gangs: late night or early morning captures, bluesuit retardness, escapes, logoffs or gear dismantling in tc and trying to avoid open combat. It's because when gang goes to war, it hits one place with full force and the weaker side knows they don't stand a chance. Situation might be differend if the sides are equal and stay that way. Or there are so many participating gangs that the dominating one simply can't keep up. Can't remember if that has ever happened. In fonline history it's always been either one gang dominating whole wasteland, a dominating alliance of gangs sharing towns or like now: so much stuff that having towns don't even matter so tc is done for the sake of fighting.

This can happen even after the actual wipe , so .....

I don't agree on some of your points but i won't argue about every single detail it's unimportant to this topic.

If at least a part of this happens after half wipe it will be a success.

btw your going too deep , too many variables can't know for sure , you must understand that it's just a speculation it can happen differently under other circumstances , few scenarios can't always tell the " big picture " or show an universal principle that applies to all situations.

If a gang dominates in tc, it dominates in everything it decides to do. So only reason to trade caps is if they simply won't bother to craft and farm all the gear.
But hard to say, you may have something here. It all depends on how the tc goes with the set of gangs that would participate in it. The beginning of this wipe was ruined by bos pickpocket and bank interest so there didn't exist a real fights over caps.

They buy stuff instead of crafting because they can and their resources allows it for a good reason , it's how it should be. There has to be more of a reason to control the wasteland than just simply fight , half wipe can refresh that after time to time.

About the bold part this is why i said , it could be interesting how things go. You just gave me an interesting thought , people won't play if there is nothing new ? But will they play if just some broken features are fixed and the game is somewhat balanced in that way ? Needs test.

But in the beginning everyone has nothing. Nobody will sell stuff if they don't have good amount of it, I doubt someone will sell every item of one type he has if he needs them himself. And most wanted items are those that everyone needs. In fonline history the best merchants have been those who are super rich and got nothing else to do. Cajuns trading company existed in the beginning of this wipe and even I used their services. It was pure player interaction but the problem was that in the beginning I was poor and couldn't keep up with their prices. And they were selling stuff they would have needed themselves. 
So even if you are completely right about this increase of player interaction it can be surely said that it won't last. The nature of fonline and its players is that items get hoarded and BA carpets will be formed in every base.

Hmm you have some interesting points , but yes i know that the player interaction won't last forever after half wipe or the actual wipe , the bases , tents will get filled with stuff sooner or later , but if the half wipe is periodicly after 5 , 6 months , maybe players will not over exaggerate with the carpets at least they shouldn't.

I was talking about bluesuits in pipe rifles trying to get a lucky crit on guy with ba and avenger, then looting  and leaving to worldmap. This leads to the rich guys simply staying in worldmap because it's not worth fighting against low geared people due to the risk balance. So rich gang will end up waiting until someone has enough gear to challenge them. That happened during this wipe: gang x ran out of metal armors and tc gear so gang y had to nothing to do while gang x was farming.
Even with all that's been said against this - at this point everything test-related is worth doing.

Heh , yes i suppose something like that can happen and happens but it doesn't mean it will always be like that , it takes just a victory or two to get equipment to challenge them further without being lucky , it's good i hope you understand that there is always stronger teams and weaker , there cannot be a perfect balance. Someone will just have to improve to pull off victories , nothing more to say.

[Ganado]

I would prefer another "April Fools" day event where the devs reverted the game to a version in 2009, but this time for a couple days or a week before putting it back to the current save state. That was fun.

[OskaRus]

We are talking about half wipe no the actual wipe , this half wipe can be used for major-minor changes that allows developers to test and readjust features of economy and other minor stuff more frequently and therefore making a better game , don't you want this ? If not - why ?

You have answered yourself. If devs would need wipe or some half assed wipe to introduce new features they would do it. It is absolute nonsense from players to request wipe.