Fonline demographics: Any real life veterans around?

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Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: avv on May 19, 2011, 12:44:02 PM ---Really?

--- End quote ---

Ya, really.

--- Quote from: Andr3aZ on May 19, 2011, 12:47:06 PM ---Who decides when a man is a man? A gentleman would walk but never run.

--- End quote ---

Dunno about the details, but I bet that having a firm stance on being able to efficiently defend the things you value the most including your family is pretty important, yes.

Andr3aZ:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on May 19, 2011, 12:15:30 PM --- Oh, and hippies who don't know how to use weapons and have no desire to learn are dramatically lacking masculinity.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on May 19, 2011, 12:53:47 PM ---Dunno about the details, but I bet that having a firm stance on being able to efficiently defend the things you value the most including your family is pretty important, yes.

--- End quote ---

I agree with you good sir, it is important to protect, but a man is not less a man if he refuses to fight or kill fathers,mothers,daughters or sons of other men.
Some people cant take the pressure/guilt to kill somebody who could be like you, just some guy whose family and loved ones will miss him if he were dead. And this, is not how we should define masculinity. It takes a man to be yourself and to stand for your ideals and point of view.

avv:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on May 19, 2011, 12:53:47 PM ---Ya, really.
--- End quote ---

That only applies when you grow up in a society that discourages killing and regards it as a taboo. If you're born and raised in warrior culture where destroying the enemy is considered joyous and glorious sport, there's nothing to it.

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Andr3aZ on May 19, 2011, 01:01:55 PM ---I agree with you good sir, it is important to protect, but a man is not less a man if he refuses to fight or kill fathers,mothers,daughters or sons of other men.
Some people cant take the pressure/guilt to kill somebody who could be like you, just some guy whose family and loved ones will miss him if he were dead. And this, is not how we should define masculinity. It takes a man to be yourself and to stand for your ideals and point of view.

--- End quote ---

The point is you can't stand for your ideals when taken to the extreme if you don't have the tools and the training. The courage to embrace the pressure and guilt associated with going to that extreme is exactly what defines masculinity, at least in our culture. Opting out is like saying that your life and the lives of your loved ones are not worth that, which in my opinion is pretty cowardly and destructive to society. Saying that others, the proffesionals should do that in your place is immoral because you're basically stating that your life is invaluable while those proffesionals should risk theirs for the often meager salary they get... not to mention the fact that the odds of them actually being there for you are slim to say the least.

--- Quote from: avv on May 19, 2011, 01:11:28 PM ---That only applies when you grow up in a society that discourages killing and regards it as a taboo. If you're born and raised in warrior culture where destroying the enemy is considered joyous and glorious sport, there's nothing to it.

--- End quote ---

Not really, no. This would only be true for a psychopath or a person that is incapable of perceiving his or her victim as a human being at all. The former is a medical condition, while the latter doesn't really occur in the developed world. I don't think either applies to anyone dwelling on this board and most certainly neither applies for any society in the modern world in general.

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