Other > Off-topic discussions

OSAMA BIN LADEN DEAD

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wreese2u:

--- Quote from: Gorlak on May 02, 2011, 10:12:26 am ---Hah, can't help but laugh and smile at this.
You do realize that the whole thing is a load of bullshit right?
The person you think you know : no more than an actor.
How does somebody die, if they never existed in first place?
hm


--- End quote ---
Indeed, its all a cover up to make obama look better :D
im huge in politics, i know he had kidney problems and he was already dead, body frozen, used to make obama look better :)

Eternauta:

--- Quote from: Dishonest Abe on May 07, 2011, 05:46:14 am ---Eternauta, I'm not saying you are wrong or right; but can you give specific examples of how the US has made Argentina suffer? You seem to be using the US as a scapegoat.

--- End quote ---

I got more than 30000 examples of how Argentina suffered because of the United States (30000 is the estimated number of people who "disappeared" during the 1976-1983 dictatorship, and to that you can add all the economical victims of neoliberalism).

The coup in 1976 was done to install a military dictatorship by our military, an institution which was simply with the USA in the context of the Cold War. This, in specific terms, meant they wanted to prepare Argentina for more economical contact with the USA (instead of joining the Socialist block), so they had to carry out actions based on the National Security Doctrine, which in more specific terms meant a complete lack of respect to human rights, the persecution of left wing peronists, communists, socialists. A persecution not only suffered by these political groups, who did have a violent behavior against the military and some civilians did suffer from them (and that was the excuse the military used to pursuit them), but at the same time had no other way to fight the political system which had been already installed beforehand by the military (our army -the first time in 1930 and the sixth and last time in 1976, let's hope never again- did a coup everytime they did not agree with the government). Along with the "normal" murder (adult men and women, members of a political group or not), there was also the kidnapping of babies which were given to "good" families to be raised to "respect the Christian and Western customs", and also had their names changed and their identity made a secret for them.

But apart from this violence related to the body and the identity, there were the economic results, as the dictatorship obviously could not exterminate all of the left wing people and anti-imperialists, but did manage to bring Argentina to the USA side in economy. This would have been impossible without the dictatorship because of the big anti-imperialist movements that could not get to the government because of reasons I already explained. To this, add that the most anti-imperialist government we had was the first presidency of Juan Domingo Perón, supported by the vast majority but taken down in 1955 by the military, who also made it literally illegal to be a Peronist). But let me stick to the consequences of the last dictatorship, which were an imposed idea that it was bad to get into politics, that being left wing meant being evil, etc. This violent action on the people's vision of politics as well as the critical economical situation Argentina was going through just after the dictatorship (which president Alfonsín could not put an end to) made it possible for Carlos Menem, a neoliberalist who gave vague promises, to become the president in 1989. His economic policies (Convertibility Plan) led the country to privatization (which brought deindustrialization and unemployement) and debt.

The final explosion was with the crisis in 2001. The situation made Néstor Kirchner, a left wing peronist, and former supporter of Montoneros (who back in the 70's were a revolutionary left wing peronist group, and got shot by the USA lover military), get to President in 2003. Our current government (with Nestor's wife as president) follows that line. And like I already said, this is the government that USA likes calling corrupt.
 
Making it short: the Cold War made the USA, paranoid about the Red Menace, encourage military coups in Latin America (Argentina in this case). These coups brought dead to thousands and also critical economical consequences, which are the "hardships" Slaver Snipe is so sarcastically "sorry" about.


--- Quote from: Slaver Snipe on May 07, 2011, 06:05:15 am ---Apparently we destroyed their economy, not themselves, we made their governments evil etc etc.

--- End quote ---

Do you not realize "ourselves" is too vague? Military and businessmen who supported the USA politically and economically is what I typed about.

Off topic? yes, but I was answering a question Abe had asked.

Slaver Snipe:
Soooo, it was your countrymen who supported the USA that killed your economy thanks for clearing that up.

JovankaB:

--- Quote from: Eternauta on May 07, 2011, 07:21:35 am ---Do you not realize "ourselves" is too vague? Military and businessmen who supported the USA politically and economically is what I typed about.
--- End quote ---

Well it seems that when you say "United States" you mean "US government and their rich privileged friends", but when you say "Argentina" you mean "Argentinian people" not "Argentinian government and their rich privileged friends".

Where does this lack of consistency come from?

Eternauta:

--- Quote from: JovankaB on May 07, 2011, 12:06:10 pm ---Well it seems that when you say "United States" you mean "US government and their rich privileged friends", but when you say "Argentina" you mean "Argentinian people" not "Argentinian government and their rich privileged friends".

Where does this lack of consistency come from?

--- End quote ---

How is it a lack of consistency? of course I mean the Argentinean people. What does Obama mean when he says the terrorist killed "Americans"? The American people, I guess. Students, workers, children, etc.

And when I talk about the USA of course I mean their government and "priviledged friends"... or what? do you want me to say "all Americans are evil"? Come on...

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