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[jodwig]

With that AC thing which decreases max chance to hit would give you 55% chance to hit man with APA or 65% in BoS Armor and that would be more likely on relying on luck than on your skills and bursts with guns would really suck because they will do many less damage and snipers don't have big chance against Minigunners at close combat.

[Nice_Boat]

A few simple, general points:
- AC does count when it comes to hitting people at long range; try aiming at a person's eyes with a Laser Rifle at 45hex when he has Metal Armor mk2  onand then try it with Combat Armor mk2. You're going to be surprised. And yes, engagements at those ranges do happen.
- 95% eyeshots are not imbalanced, because they require high perception and exceptionally high weapon skill, forcing the player to sacrifice something to get it to this level.
- PvP is not about who shoots first, because most of the fighting is done in groups. What counts is numbers, surprise effect, communication and tactics. If you're trying to fight alone and are complaining that you die because the other guy surprised you and squeezed off the first shot, you are not adapting. Stop doing it wrong, start hunting in packs. FO PvP is not for "hardcore PKers", it's for people who can make the best out of teamplay.

Now, both of these ideas you mentioned before are terrible because they're going to:
- reduce the ammount of skillpoints one has to spend on weapon skill making every fighter an expert doctor or boosting his SPECIAL to some funny levels due to previously INT-tied points being spent on EN or AGI;
- reduce the importance of player actions (like flanking and using cover) in combat by making the luck decide - the roulette factor with instakill/stun/no-stun eye/head-shot critical hits is high enough, there's no real need to further aggravate the situation;
- make virtually every engagement indecisive; player characters can move really fast, so if a group is threatened from the flank or something like that most of them are going to be able to withdraw in a situation that would get them killed right now. I mean, I see it happening from time to time because of high HP these days - so halving the lethality of combat is going to make it ridiculous.

Moreover, I really dislike the fact that people who don't have a lot to do with PvP in this game try the hardest to change some random features. If you didn't take the time to understand and master the mechanics, why do you think your modifications are going to work? Somehow, I don't see any well known PvPers (either NA or DA) posting this stuff (or complaining too much about the game being imbalanced for that matter).

[Roachor]

I don't PVP in groups, there's no sport in it.

[Badger]

Somehow, I don't see any well known PvPers (either NA or DA) posting this stuff (or complaining too much about the game being imbalanced for that matter).

Of course they're not. The biggest gangs in the game are bound to be happy with being able to kill anyone in two hits.

And so what if I don't have about 20 people to back me up? Is PVP not PVP until you have 20 people with you? Does the game experience of everyone who isn't in you or your opposing gang irrelevant?

If eyes and head aren't overpowered, why do you never see people shooting the legs, arms, or groin?

I'd be fine if the damage multipliers were sane. But they're not. Being able to do 171 damage in one single shot is a terrible idea. Instant kills in any game are a bad idea. This is what happens when you take the character development system for a single player game and directly slap it into multiplayer. You have a lot of supermen walking around. The NPCs in Fallout never repeatedly shot you in the eyes because it would have been a much shittier game.

I'm revamping my suggestion.

-Remove instant kills.
-Make all damage multipliers x1 or x2.
-Make armor piercing only available with a 100+ roll on crit table. (Better Crits)
-Make every crit roll cause an injury. Unless the person that gets hit can pass a luck roll with a -2 modifier for each 20 pts on the critical roll.
-AC subtracts from the 95% to hit.

[Roachor]

Instant kills have already been removed, I was a bit disappointed I couldn't kill people with rocks anymore.

[Nice_Boat]

Of course they're not. The biggest gangs in the game are bound to be happy with being able to kill anyone in two hits.

And so what if I don't have about 20 people to back me up? Is PVP not PVP until you have 20 people with you? Does the game experience of everyone who isn't in you or your opposing gang irrelevant?

If you're not aiming for town control, having a group of 2 or 3 is enough and makes it a lot more balanced. If you weren't aware of that fact, I question the value of your game experience. I'll say it again - this system (being basically Fallout Tactics without stance adjustments) was created with teamplay in mind and works very well when there's teamplay. Given the nature of combat with firearms, it's natural and immersive. Most of the people playing FO accept this fact and simply adjust their tactics. You, on the other hand, are whining and pushing to adjust the game to suit your tastes, which would ruin it for a lot of people who are having a lot of fun with the way it is right now.

If eyes and head aren't overpowered, why do you never see people shooting the legs, arms, or groin?

You do see armshots against minigunners etc. quite often. Leg shots are there for immobilising instead of killing - since most of the time you're interested in just taking the target out, you don't see them that much. But it's good they're there. And groinshots - well, I've seen quite a lot, mostly as a joke (and that's where they really belong).

I'd be fine if the damage multipliers were sane. But they're not. Being able to do 171 damage in one single shot is a terrible idea. Instant kills in any game are a bad idea. This is what happens when you take the character development system for a single player game and directly slap it into multiplayer. You have a lot of supermen walking around. The NPCs in Fallout never repeatedly shot you in the eyes because it would have been a much shittier game.

I'm revamping my suggestion.

-Remove instant kills.
-Make all damage multipliers x1 or x2.
-Make armor piercing only available with a 100+ roll on crit table. (Better Crits)
-Make every crit roll cause an injury. Unless the person that gets hit can pass a luck roll with a -2 modifier for each 20 pts on the critical roll.
-AC subtracts from the 95% to hit.

Critical hits were already nerfed to the point where big guns are clearly superior in everything except range. And no, there are no "instant kills" in endgame PvP - even if you score a hit that reduces the targets HP to 0, his mate can come up and FA him faster than you could shoot again. Given high HP (above 170) of most high level characters and the fact that about 1 out of 4 hits scores really high you have to attack the target at least 4 times on standard distances to get a kill, and that's assuming nobody is healing it. Of course there are situations that are downright brutal and deadly, like receiving a burst from a minigun up close, but that's the nature of close quarters.

[MadMax]

I dont see this thread as suggestion, I see it as a whine against people who spent a lot of effort and time building a nice sniper character. If you dont like how it works, make one yourself and then come back and complain again.