Other > Suggestions
Scrap PvP Stealing
avv:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on March 01, 2011, 08:30:22 PM ---You're always at risk of losing your loot.
You're talking about the risk of losing a highly detoriorated smg from an encounter?
--- End quote ---
What I meant was that when a player wants to rob another player with violence, he might lose his own gear if the victim manages to kill the robber. However in steal situation the thief doesn't risk any material because he is bluesuit, yet his victim still has the possibility to lose stuff. It doesn't matter if the thief has spent hours failing, it doesn't net him some sort of "steal points" that justify him to take items from players without risk.
--- Quote ---That 1 succesful steal can make the day.
--- End quote ---
So it's just fun? The fun is too biased towards the thief.
--- Quote ---The mehod is the same. You start by standing next to someone.
It's hard to deal with bursters when you've just been killed.
--- End quote ---
I meant that we can find methods to alter the features when it comes to suicide bursters, it's up to devs.
In addition, suicide bursters are much better enemies than thieves. At least you can protect yourself against them by having high hp and good armor, you can even shoot back when you're under attack. In addition suicide burster risks his gear, even if he has friend to loot stuff, he still risks the stuff.
--- Quote ---No. I admit players pretend to use it for grieving.
--- End quote ---
So there is absolutely no case where player don't use steal to grief? Never ever? I met a player in ncr who literally chased the same people over and over with steal, got killed every now and then but always returned and kept chasing. Isn't that griefing?
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: avv on March 02, 2011, 10:44:21 AM ---What I meant was that when a player wants to rob another player with violence, he might lose his own gear if the victim manages to kill the robber. However in steal situation the thief doesn't risk any material because he is bluesuit, yet his victim still has the possibility to lose stuff. It doesn't matter if the thief has spent hours failing, it doesn't net him some sort of "steal points" that justify him to take items from players without risk.
--- End quote ---
Risking an encounter SMG with not even a full clip doesn't sound like much of a risk of losing gear to me.
You risk bad rep, your risk wasting time. Losing rep means you can get shot in encounters with that faction. My thief has 100 OD, but I know many haven't put points in OD. No result in hours means wasting time. It's a risk as you could use that time to do other things.
--- Quote from: avv on March 02, 2011, 10:44:21 AM ---So it's just fun? The fun is too biased towards the thief.
--- End quote ---
It might just be satisfying finally having a successful steal.
[sarcasm]There are so many things fun in this game, leveling, alts, PK, hanging out with other people, ... Let's nerve it all.[/sarcasm]
--- Quote from: avv on March 02, 2011, 10:44:21 AM ---I meant that we can find methods to alter the features when it comes to suicide bursters, it's up to devs.
In addition, suicide bursters are much better enemies than thieves. At least you can protect yourself against them by having high hp and good armor, you can even shoot back when you're under attack. In addition suicide burster risks his gear, even if he has friend to loot stuff, he still risks the stuff.
--- End quote ---
Tell that to the low level characters getting shot by bursters. Most characters used for trading aren't power builds. Often they're crafters. They don't have high HP.
Thieves can be avoided much more easily. If people armor up, the burster and looter become several bursters and a looter. As for shooting back, it requires you to close the trade windows. Meaning you already received 2 bursts point blank range. As said before, the only thing suicide bursters risk is an encounter gun and the ammo in it. Like thieves, they're not wearing armor, etc.
--- Quote from: avv on March 02, 2011, 10:44:21 AM ---So there is absolutely no case where player don't use steal to grief? Never ever? I met a player in ncr who literally chased the same people over and over with steal, got killed every now and then but always returned and kept chasing. Isn't that griefing?
--- End quote ---
It's grieving, not stealing.
They're exploiting the fact that the animation is the same. Blame the grievers, not the thieves. They're 2 different things.
Trokanis:
Sadly the current population, thieves and griefer thieves are pretty much the same. I haven't bumped into a thief that didn't chase me around, haunt me at every vendor or in most cases try to blow me up! Does stealing need to go? NO I never EVER said that, but somethings gotta change, beyond just the animation. It is by FAR too much all gain no pain. There is something just not right in a system where making a character who's sole purpose is to go somewhere and spend your time taking from others has little to no risk. Congratulations your thief character has /godmode turned on, you can do anything that character was built for, over and over, and you might 1/50 lose something...
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: Trokanis on March 02, 2011, 12:03:27 PM ---Sadly the current population, thieves and griefer thieves are pretty much the same. I haven't bumped into a thief that didn't chase me around, haunt me at every vendor or in most cases try to blow me up!
--- End quote ---
Almost every single thief I have encountered doesn't do this. I hardly bump into a thieving griever. Only exception this session are Greens and Blackcaty.
Saying grievers and thieves are the same is short sighted bullshit.
To me it sounds like you spend too much time in NCR and not elsewhere.
avv:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on March 02, 2011, 11:25:33 AM ---Risking an encounter SMG with not even a full clip doesn't sound like much of a risk of losing gear to me.
--- End quote ---
Nobody's talking about smg, you're just going to die when you meet anyone competent. Good example of player robbing would be going to reno with group of friends to hunt merchants and weaker players while wearing top tier stuff. Risk is some more dangerous group comes and kills you.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on March 02, 2011, 11:25:33 AM ---You risk bad rep, your risk wasting time.
--- End quote ---
And what does the other player get from you risking time and rep? He can't sell or use the time and rep you wasted but you can use the equipment you stole from him.
If I shoot some robber, I get his equipment. What do I get from dead thief?
--- Quote ---It might just be satisfying finally having a successful steal.
[sarcasm]There are so many things fun in this game, leveling, alts, PK, hanging out with other people, ... Let's nerve it all.[/sarcasm]
--- End quote ---
The point was that it's not fun towards the victim. Yeh it might be fun to shoot the thief once, but when he just comes back to harass again it starts to get old. If there was a way to trick thieves or fool them to expose themselves, it'd be more fun to the victim aswell since he would have a way to hit back.
--- Quote ---Tell that to the low level characters getting shot by bursters. Most characters used for trading aren't power builds. Often they're crafters. They don't have high HP.
--- End quote ---
Yet they can build themselves stronger by getting more hp and better armor. You can't build yourself stronger against thief the same way.
--- Quote ---Thieves can be avoided much more easily. If people armor up, the burster and looter become several bursters and a looter.
--- End quote ---
One player cannot split into several people.
--- Quote ---As for shooting back, it requires you to close the trade windows. Meaning you already received 2 bursts point blank range. As said before, the only thing suicide bursters risk is an encounter gun and the ammo in it. Like thieves, they're not wearing armor, etc.
--- End quote ---
The burster might not able to pull 2nd burst because guards shoot him in the between. But nevertheless, I've had no problems vs suicide bursters due to wearing armor and having high hp. In the end, discussing the whole suicide burster issue isn't relevant to thievery because the whole phenomena is exploit. Thievery is feature.
--- Quote ---It's grieving, not stealing.
They're exploiting the fact that the animation is the same. Blame the grievers, not the thieves. They're 2 different things.
--- End quote ---
Those players I saw were stealing. Like I said they died occasionally due to being caught, then they just returned again and kept doing the same thing. When they had too low rep they just sold some crap in the local hospital.
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