Other > General Game Discussion
Perks - Which ones are useless?
Badger:
General Perks discussion to stop the critical hit thread steering even further off topic. I realise perk tweaking is coming soon, but I'd be interested in just discussing perks - what you use, what you don't, which ones do you think are overpowered, underpowered, total waste of time, whatever.
I realise perk tweaking is WIP, so if there's crafting perks or similar on the way, do bring them up.
For reference, here's the perk table. Also, some of Solar's WIP dodging/anti-crit perks.
--- Quote ---Anti Crit
Quick Recovery 3 AG 6 Effects of Knockout/down/lost turn are reduced to 1/3rd 1
Stonewall 6 ST 6 En Roll to ignore knockout, En-5 roll to ignore knockdown 1
Iron Grip 9 ST 6 En Roll to ignore Arm Cripple, En-5 roll to ignore Weapon Drop 1
Man of Steel 12 En 6 + Str 6 Gives -10 on the critical table to hits targetting you 1
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Dodging
HtH Evade 3 Unarmed/Melee 75% Gives 20% AC if only Unarmed or Melee weapons are in either hand 1
HtH Evade+ 6 Unarmed/Melee 150% Gives 40% AC if only Unarmed or Melee weapons are in either hand 1
Dodger 9 AG 8 Gives +20 to AC 1
Dodger+ 12 AG 10 Gives +40 to AC 1
--- End quote ---
First discussion point: Would reduced SPECIAL requirements break the game? I'm inclined to think that it would lead to more varied character builds, as you don't have to build your character around getting Bonus Rate of Fire.
Ganado:
My Ideas:
* Educated should be available at level 3.
* Adrenaline Rush should be +2 ST at 50% HP, mechanics should be changed to allow stat to go over 10
* Bonus Move should be combined into one Perk
* Faster Healing should give +5 or higher healing rate, maybe make it twice as likely to heal crippled limbs.
* Quick Recovery can half knockout time too.
* Pyromaniac should be applied to molotov cocktails
* Pathfinder increases based on Outdoorsman level too *
* Rad Resistance could be +25% resistance
* Silent Death Agility requirement needs to be lowered
* Earlier Sequence should be combined into one Perk (+6 Seq)
* Cautious Nature should work for all encounters, let PE increase above 10 for positioning **
* Healer should give more bonus, or make Luck equivalent to 10 for FA/Doc purposes while giving default bonus in addition
* Gain _____ should give bonuses above 10 (same issue as previously stated)
*Solar said this in another thread
**Lexx said this in another thread, I added "above 10" part.
--- Quote ---First discussion point: Would reduced SPECIAL requirements break the game?
--- End quote ---
There should be some special requirements, but none too high. Anything requiring more than 6, and no more than 8 in any case, of any SPECIAL stat is pushing it too high.
Some stats have requirements that don't match what a person would build their character for, and Perks should be benefits for having a type of build, not having to make your build around a Perk, I agree.
Invincible:
Some stats have requirements that don't match what a person would build their character for, and Perks should be benefits to having a type of build, not having to make your build around a Perk, I agree.
This.
RavenousRat:
--- Quote from: Dishonest Abe on February 17, 2011, 01:21:43 AM ---My Ideas:
* Educated should be available at level 3.
* Adrenaline Rush should be +2 ST at 50% HP, mechanics should be changed to allow stat to go over 10
* Bonus Move should be combined into one Perk
* Faster Healing should give +5 or higher healing rate, maybe make it twice as likely to heal crippled limbs.
* Quick Recovery can half knockout time too.
* Pyromaniac should be applied to molotov cocktails
* Pathfinder increases based on Outdoorsman level too *
* Rad Resistance could be +25% resistance
* Silent Death Agility requirement needs to be lowered
* Earlier Sequence should be combined into one Perk (+6 Seq)
* Cautious Nature should work for all encounters, let PE increase above 10 for positioning **
* Healer should give more bonus, or make Luck equivalent to 10 for FA/Doc purposes while giving default bonus in addition
* Gain _____ should give bonuses above 10 (same issue as previously stated)
--- End quote ---
Educated equal to Gain Intelligence perk, I don't think such perks should be on 3rd level, it's almost like More Criticals. I think it should be changed with Lifegiver and add its bonus retroactively from previous levels, so if you'll take it on higher level it'll give you as if you took it from 1st.
Adrenaline rush... still noone will use it, who needs an additional 2 ST when thier HP below 50%? Even if you're melee, who cares about those 2 max damage?
Bonus move perk is pure TB perk in a game with RT+TB modes, making it better only because it's useful in TB isn't good idea, because if character is taking this perk, it means he's PvE looter or PvP TB trapper, if player is making TB traps it doesn't mean it should safe him 1 perk slot.
Faster Healing still useless, noone ever will take this perk, may be only if it'll be some kind of high level perk equal to BRoF (15+ level, so you'll suffer alot taking it, because you'll have no lifegiver, or no brof, or no weapon handling or other anti-crit perk), and it'll regenerate X HP at real time, may be X equal to Healing Rate every 10 seconds.
At 1st post it's said that Quick Recovery will work for all stunning effects and will make them only 33% working. So you'll be knocked down/out or losing turn for 1/3 of time.
If with this perk molotovs will be weaker than plasma grenades (I think they will), noone will take this perk. If molotovs will be stronger than plasma grenades with this perk, then noone will use frag and plasma grenades, because you'll see lots pyromaniacs using only molotovs.
Pathfinder -
Rad Resistance can be removed from perks if only radiation won't be added to more places than Glow, or if players will have radiated weapon in PvP or something.
Silent Death even with no agility reqs will be still useless, because of current sneaking.
Earlier Sequence is the same story as Bonus Move, in PvE noone will take it, so it's only for PvP TB traps, what is still useless, even if it'll be combined in 1 perk, I think 1st perk will be always stonewall/toughness/awareness/other anti-crit perk possible, and noone will sacrifice those perks for additional sequence if only it's very strange TB build.
Do you really think there're idiots who will waste perk on Cautious Nature?
Don't know about Healer, it's weak in comparison to other perks, it's better additional LG or toughness or more crit or better crit or anti-crit perk or even action boy or weapon handling than heal more HP with FA...
Gain Ability should be allowed at <12 level, may be even on 3rd level, because there're plenty perks that simulate ability points and working much better. 3rd level is too much, because there're no such perks, they start from 6th, but even those perks are usually simulating more than 1 pure SPECIAL point, as example more critical is equal to 5 LK for burster, it's like 18/21 perk for them, while for snipers it's mostly like Gain Ability: Luck, so 12th, example Lifegiver is overpowered imba perk and obivously should be nerfed, while base HP without perks should be higher, but it's 12th level perk, the same as Gain Ability, even if'll be possible to go over 10 stats points with Gain Ability, it shouldn't be able on 12th level, better 3rd level, may be someone will even take this perk sometime, so most of snipers will have 11 LK and/or 13 PE (Gain Ability + Sharpshooter), because noone will take this perk after 12th level, even 15th, because 12th is always lifegiver.
Edit:
Just look at this:
There're 7 perks.
-1 as 3rd level perk: it's toughness/stonewall, may be awareness +later can be some other anti-crit perk.
-2 as 6th and 9th perks: more criticals, better criticals, bonus ranged damages, sharpshooter, etc.
-1 as 12th perk - Lifegiver.
So you have only 3 perks left, which will be used on perks that already listed at 6th/9th/12th perks +BRoF/Weapon Handling.
There're no more perk slots for your Cautious Natures or Faster Healing or Adrenaline Rushes or Pyromaniacs or Rad Resistances and other crap.
Edit#2:
And if they will add more perk slots, then it'll be used with all anti-crit perks, Action Boys, Gain Abilities, snipers will start picking BRDs, everyone will have x2 LG, x2 toughnesses, awarenesses, etc., because all those perks are better than... useless perks.
JovankaB:
I agree with RavenousRat about Adrenaline Rush, who cares about +2ST bonus if you must be half-dead to have it. It has no use, better just lower EN by 2 points and get +2 ST when creating character, or take weapon handling perk.
My proposition is change Adrenaline Rush to something like +10% to DR and +4 to DT below 50% HP. So it works like 2 toughness perks, but only if you are in trouble.
Same about Cautious Nature, the positioning effect is just not worthy enough. But if it added a bonus of +50% when checking if you can avoid encounter, it could be useful for people with low-medium outdoors.
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