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Author Topic: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range  (Read 1495 times)

Doctor Eex

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Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« on: February 17, 2011, 08:30:19 am »

It is kinda strange - with my SMG I cannot fire more than 25 hexes away...
I know, it's Fallout legacy, but... If I know my SMG is 25 range, i still could point it on 26 hex away enemy, pray a bit and pull the trigger.
Let's imagine that bullet does not disappear on 26 hex or does not fall to the ground.

My suggestion is -
1) Maximum weapon range become Effective range. Easy to rename, red line still indicates the same value - but now it is Effective range
2) All weapon get infinite Maximum range. You can target and shoot AT ANY DISTANCE if you see the target.
3) As soon as actual target range exceeds weapon's Effective range, both chance to hit and damage are reduced in this way:
Lets take Single SMG shots.
- 25 hexes (range = effective + 0) chance to hit = chance to hit - 0 % ; damage = damage * 100%
- 26 hexes (range = effective + 1) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 15 % ; damage = damage * 85% (if character has finesse, then damage = damage * 70%)
- 27 hexes (range = effective + 2) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 30 % ; damage = damage * 70% (if character has finesse, then damage = damage * 40%)
- 28hexes (range = effective + 3) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 45 % ; damage = damage * 55% (if character has finesse, then damage = damage *10%)
- 29 hexes (range = effective + 4) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 60 % ; damage = damage * 40% (if character has finesse, then damage = 0)
- 30 hexes (range = effective + 5) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 75 % ; damage = damage * 25% (if character has finesse, then damage = 0)
- 31 hexes (range = effective + 6) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 90 % ; damage = damage * 10% (if character has finesse, then damage = 0)
- 32 hexes (range = effective + 7) chance to hit = chance to hit +your critical chance - 105 % ; damage = 0 (if character has finesse, then damage = 0)

If implemented, we have more tactical options (to shoot from ineffective range or to move to enemy?). Of cause, this numbers are not perfect yet and need accurate balancing and they may be affected by weapon group (shotguns, rifles, pistols etc. ), weapon perks and character perks.
I've putted + to hit from critical chance, because if you trained as sniper, you can shhot little bit more effective on super long ranges, however doubled damage penalty if finesse.

I think it will be a nice upgrade to current battle system. Let's discuss. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 08:40:25 am by Doctor Eex »
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Haraldx

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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 01:43:27 pm »

I think it's quite good to get rid of dumb 10 hp NPCs who have gone mad and just run without any reason. However, snipers get an even better advantage. Ability to hit from 56 hexes in the eyes, knock him out and do 0 damage? No, please. In this case, the Assault rifle will be our new sniper weapon, because it:
* already has higher range than hunting rifle.
* Can do emergency bursts if needed.
* Has less expensive ammo.
* More damage.
* Has bigger mag.

If everyone used to use Hunting rifle as a weak sniper weapon, then the AR will be our new weak sniper and a perfect solution if in emergencies you need to burst (as some people take a HR and a small SMG - 10mm SMG for example). This will just cause cripplers to be very powerful and leave BG aside. I hope you get my point.
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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2011, 11:22:57 pm »

I think it's quite good to get rid of dumb 10 hp NPCs who have gone mad and just run without any reason. However, snipers get an even better advantage. Ability to hit from 56 hexes in the eyes, knock him out and do 0 damage? No, please. In this case, the Assault rifle will be our new sniper weapon, because it:
* already has higher range than hunting rifle.
* Can do emergency bursts if needed.
* Has less expensive ammo.
* More damage.
* Has bigger mag.

If everyone used to use Hunting rifle as a weak sniper weapon, then the AR will be our new weak sniper and a perfect solution if in emergencies you need to burst (as some people take a HR and a small SMG - 10mm SMG for example). This will just cause cripplers to be very powerful and leave BG aside. I hope you get my point.

The way things are, it would be a problem. But consider: There has been talk of ways to mitigate the obnoxiousness of crits. If that happened, you could potentially be pretty resistant to that with the right set up, and basically not fear getting plinked for 0 damage, which might be all that would happen at those ranges.  Also, a number of Big Guns have pretty respectable range.  The humble rocket launcher has a max of 40, and with this, could pretty handily whack people at sniper ranges, and more, potentially. It wouldn't hurt some of the other big guns either. Some of your better builds have WAY more skill than they need to reliably hit at current ranges, and could possibly hit like that beyond "effective range" too. 
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Michaelh139

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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2011, 11:27:05 pm »

What do you intend to do about Combat timer?

Scenario:

guy with lot o pe and smg sees guy near exit grid.
They are 50 hexes away from each other.
guy near grid tries to run
Smg guy shoots just to force combat timer on 2nd player.
Smg guy eventually runs up into effective rage and kills screaming "LOLNOOBEYEPWNYUUU" (or)  Guy near grid tries to run somewhere else and do something.. hide, run more to another grid, etc. but are not always an option you understand, its still ridiculous.
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Archaeon_dude

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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 05:30:29 am »

 This "ineffective weapon range" shouldn't either be infinity. But you got a point, OP.
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Doctor Eex

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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 06:05:49 am »

What do you intend to do about Combat timer?

Scenario:

guy with lot o pe and smg sees guy near exit grid.
They are 50 hexes away from each other.
guy near grid tries to run
Smg guy shoots just to force combat timer on 2nd player.
Smg guy eventually runs up into effective rage and kills screaming "LOLNOOBEYEPWNYUUU" (or)  Guy near grid tries to run somewhere else and do something.. hide, run more to another grid, etc. but are not always an option you understand, its still ridiculous.

May be it should work like this?
If you're not shooting and you're not hit, then start end cmbt countdown.

Regarding crits: remeber soon enough some "anticrits" will be implemnted, however may be in addition to chance to hit and damage should be some crit chance reduction for noneffective range.
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Johnnybravo

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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 05:12:10 am »

Chance to hit should be greatly affected by being out of effective range, it'd be nice to overcome few hex of limit by having great skill in firearms, however range limits were added for a reason.
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Re: Maximum weapon range become Effective weapon range
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 02:19:54 pm »

But bursts' damage already changes according to range

This would doesn't seem to bring anything good
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