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[avv]

You know zero about what is RPG. The whole Fallout 1,2, Online whatever idea - your success or lose is determined by your stats skills and perks.

Maybe versus npc. But even in fallout 2 your personal skills and knowledge about the game was helpful. Just go straight to navarro and receive APA, you can't stop players from using their creativity.

If you want pure rpg, then shouldn't speech 300 builds be able to talk you to suicide? Or force you to join him and do whatever he wants? He has high speech so he convinces your char. That's rpg.

Fallout has Dodger perk, remeber? And armor class? And chance to hit.

In my opinion it would be better if players could perform actions ingame to reduce enemy's chance to hit, like taking cover behind objects. Instead of just choosing some perks and counting on them.

You need to implement you micromanagement skills - go play Stracraft. If you want to implement your fast clicking skills - Diablo

Fast clicking already gives massive advantage. Maybe you should suggest removing it. In addition taking cover behind walls and recoving aps is unfair too because it's micro. Remove it aswell. In fact we should just throw a dice and compare our stats and equipment in autocombat mode to see who wins.

When players compete, the winner must be the most skilled. It cannot be balanced otherwise. Most skilled will find the strings that lead to victory anyway. Currently the skill required is rather indefinite. It has to do with making the best build, finding enough free time to grind, finding a good gang and so on. You can't somehow remove remove the effect of player's creativity from multiplayer game. 
When you fight against npcs, the winner can be declared by rpg rules. That's because npcs are slaves to their script and cannot adapt as players do.

[drypoothe]

It's not really about making unarmed/melee as strong as other guns, but to make it at least playable to some extent

Someone said before "hth / melee is when you don't have any weapons, so you're forced to use it" right, let's completely ignore power fists, cattle prod, ripper, etc.

[Sarakin]

It's not really about making unarmed/melee as strong as other guns, but to make it at least playable to some extent

Someone said before "hth / melee is when you don't have any weapons, so you're forced to use it" right, let's completely ignore power fists, cattle prod, ripper, etc.

But in modern era, it works just like that. People prefer to use ranged weapons over melee, because you can maintain safe distance. Furthermore, ranged weapons are more lethal. Melee weapons and unarmed just cant compete with ranged weapons in any way, maybe when is sneaked. As it was stated, it should be weapon of last resort. My only solution is to promote unarmed/melee in PvE or in various tournaments/events.

[borse]

Don't need to buff melee, why? Here's why: Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

Master dodger is just stupid, we don't need it. What we need is a perk for pure melee builds that allows them more hp (possibly up to 270-280, something higher than 250). Make melee builds into tanking builds

[avv]

But in modern era, it works just like that. People prefer to use ranged weapons over melee, because you can maintain safe distance. Furthermore, ranged weapons are more lethal. Melee weapons and unarmed just cant compete with ranged weapons in any way, maybe when is sneaked. As it was stated, it should be weapon of last resort. My only solution is to promote unarmed/melee in PvE or in various tournaments/events.

Unarmed & melee could be someone's profesion like any crafting ability is. They would then participate in competitions where only melee is allowed and gain caps by winning. Boxing anyone?

Melee just can't work until there is some sort of penalty to shooting an enemy from point blank with a gun like minigun. Sneaking can't work either until turning is penaltized and field of view reduced from sides and rear. Otherwise it's just gonna end like this: sneak behind burster, he notices you from 3 hex, turns instantly and puts a burst in you with max damage. Same goes with eyeshot snipers. Instant 180 degree turnaround followed by knockout eyeshot with 3x bypass dmg.

[Doctor Eex]

Master dodger is just stupid, we don't need it. What we need is a perk for pure melee builds that allows them more hp (possibly up to 270-280, something higher than 250). Make melee builds into tanking builds

Why it is stupid?
And why "we don't need we don't need" You don't need may be.

Boosting hp won't do ANYTHING.

promote unarmed/melee in PvE or in various tournaments/events.

I'm not sure it is nice - to have a char useless all the time, except 1-2 events per era or punching brahmins.

O'k some of you people still want to pwn anything that moves with miniguns, I got it. And avv, master of micromanagement and shit, I got your point. But when somebody says - don't bring a knife to gunfights because it is unrealistic - I can say the same for human mounted miniguns and plasma rifles.
Because Fallout has rippers and powerfists, they should be far more useful than farm and sell ' em
Now some reasonable thoghts please. For those who don't want to boost unarmed and melee - just post something like "Minigon rulezz!!!" and stop flood please.

[borse]

Why it is stupid?
And why "we don't need we don't need" You don't need may be.

Boosting hp won't do ANYTHING.

I don't see many melee builds, do you? That's where WE comes from.

[Doctor Eex]

I don't see many melee builds, do you?

Because the suck so much as the are now. That's why I suggest to do something

[avv]

Now some reasonable thoghts please. For those who don't want to boost unarmed and melee - just post something like "Minigon rulezz!!!" and stop flood please.

There's nothing wrong with melee used in pvp, it's just a matter of how it's used. Worst way to implement it would be that meleedude has to only charge his targets and that's it. Sneaking would be more acceptable, but why sneak and stab if you can just shoot?
Melee could work accompanied with guns. When you're over range, you use guns but when you're really close it'd be better to use melee.
If you think about it, a strong big gunner could be a good fistfighter (except that our big gunners aren't strong) and sniper should without a doubt know how to handle a knife.

Game mechanics just have to be tuned to favour that kind of gameplay. Like I said, instant turning, too sweeping line of sight, equal running speed in all situations and instant firing just make it impossible to implement a melee in pvp so that it makes everyone happy. In addition to be good at melee, it demands too many perks that are away from gunfighting skills. However, perks like more crits and better crits work in melee and shooting so it's an example how perks should be like. Bonus ranged damage could be combined with bonus hth damage, same with brof and bhtha.

[borse]

Who those who don't get it - THE WHOLE IDEA has nothing to do so-called "REALIZM"
Because  F universe has nothing to do with it.
You play a bluesuit, who stands and looks epic.

Let us remember Chuck Norris for example. He can kill a mini-gunner.
Unarmed and melee should act as extremely deadly masters of fight like in the movies.

Imagine unarmed with 65% max chance hit running towards to minigunner. Miniguner burst, and unarmed has 35% chance to remain intact. Why? Because he's perfectly mastered to control his body, he makes somersaults and other evasive maneuvres. Yes we don't have such animation, but still can imagine.

Seriously? Where is the logic in this?

So martial arts masters can move faster than bullets... No that happens only in the matrix.

The whole realism thing is bullshit, this IS Fallout Online and the only shit that should make sense is the shit that actually goes down in the fallout universe. I have not played one fallout game where my unarmed/melee skill has allowed me to dodge bullets. Nor have I really used a melee/unarmed weapon to charge an enemy with a gun. Why? Not because melee/unarmed suck, but because IT IS STUPID TO RUN HEAD ON TOWARDS A MAN WITH A GUN WITH THE INTENTION OF KILLING HIM WITH YOUR HANDS.  

Melee/unarmed isn't nerfed, it's just meant for other things besides owning in PVP.

Want to use melee in pvp? Make a thrower/melee hybrid. Use frags to knock down enemy and beat him to death with your hands/melee weapon. OR use a sneak build.

[wezu]

Unarmed is a good skill in this game. You don't need to craft, repair, buy weapons or ammo. You can beat most enemies in TB, you just have to avoid bursters or strike first and strike hard.

The downside is that in pvp you will always die.

Melee sucks. Sure super catle prod can hit for nice damage, but you need to craft it, get ammo etc, so you migth as well use a gun...

...as for the realism gun vs knife... You grab his hand holding the gun, force it aside and stab him while he's fighting to regain his gun.

[borse]

Unarmed is a good skill in this game. You don't need to craft, repair, buy weapons or ammo. You can beat most enemies in TB, you just have to avoid bursters or strike first and strike hard.

The downside is that in pvp you will always die.

Melee sucks. Sure super catle prod can hit for nice damage, but you need to craft it, get ammo etc, so you migth as well use a gun...

...as for the realism gun vs knife... You grab his hand holding the gun, force it aside and stab him while he's fighting to regain his gun.

I agree with everything except the bolded line. The whole notion is that the gunman would be able to shoot you down before you even got to him. Eex wants to make it so that a melee/unarmed person can dance through a flurry of bullets and punch all his opponents in the face, killing them outright... And that's absolutely ridiculous. 

This idea kind of goes with the bolded statement. INCREASE the critical failure rate of gunners standing too close to their targets. Critical failure in that case could involve some sort of tussle for the gun or a physical action such as the gun being knocked from your hand in the heat of battle.

[Doctor Eex]

You can beat most enemies in TB, you just have to avoid bursters or strike first and strike hard.

What enemies? NPC like raiders? Even 4 mercs near SF and you're dead.
As for vs. player, you will not kill even 1 lvl bluesuit, because he will simply walk away.

[wezu]

I've killed deathclaws with a spiked knuckle, beat unity patrols with haymakers, I can kill anything with 120-150 hp in one turn with a rock. Never killed a player.

Its not useless its just not as good as guns.

And just for the record, I don't want hth fighters to turn into jedi, sneak attacks is the only valid option for me... Or 'In your face!' perk.

[sander]

... guy with bear hands - who do u think should win ?  ...

You made my day.

+1 for an idea. IMHO melee builds really need a good boost. (FIX THIS DAMNED "HTH EVASION" PERK AT LEAST)