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[Nice_Boat]

I wasn't the one who started to be a smartass, NiceBoat.

And reading all this stuff you are suggesting here is showing the obvious fact that you have no experience in GMing and are underestimating the amount of work done behind it. It sure does sound nice on the paper and similar stuff was planned. Ofcourse you will now reply (and frankly I don't care) that we are incompetent and such, but keep on living the dream.

Spawning items is possible. Introducing new maps is possible with minor server updates, having people make simple ones is easy. GMs impersonating NPCs is certainly possible. Teleporting people to aforementioned locations is possible. The ammount of work is negligible when compared with events like NA vs DA or Ares tournament and even more negligible when compared with persistent "events" like the NCR Army. You have all the tools to make something like this happen, especially since you can make the playerbase work for you instead of you working against it. How many events have failed or were affected because you couldn't micromanage each and every player's behaviour? Plenty. Bombings during the boxing tournament? Trolling in Ares? It's obvious you can't make everyone behave the way you want him to. What can a Game Master do? Look into the player's heart and pull the right strings. Make him care for something, create a series of obstacles for him to overcome and give him the reward at the end. Make people compete for something, create meaningful interactions. Players have extremely limited possibilities compared with GMs and they've made this happen (see Wichura's Fight Club project for refference). That's just RPG basics 101, straight out of "Gamemastering for Dummies" and it's genuinely embarassing that I have to tell you that.

And if you say you can't impersonate a Mysterious Stranger With Key Information and spawn a specific number of item X at point Y or complicate this sequence to the point it becomes challenging and entertaining then oh well... perhaps the dev-team should find someone who can?

[Surf]

I am sorry, but :

And reading all this stuff you are suggesting here is showing the obvious fact that you have no experience in GMing and are underestimating the amount of work done behind it. It sure does sound nice on the paper and similar stuff was planned. Ofcourse you will now reply (and frankly I don't care) that we are incompetent and such, but keep on living the dream.

applies even more after reading your last post. You have no idea what you are talking about and yet you keep on being a smartass and pretend to know everything, everything is easy, hey I am Nice Boat, I know everything, etc. This was my last post here as it's just wasted time, but keep on building your own reality here on the forum.

[Lexx]

Every map needs to be controlled, checked, tested, maybe even overworked, then includet into the game. In at least a few cases, speciall scripts might be needed.

The ammount of work is negligible when compared with events like NA vs DA or Ares tournament and even more negligible when compared with persistent "events" like the NCR Army.

It is not. Of course, you will now answer that it is. After this I will answer: Have you worked on the game already? Your answer then will be no. Just to sum up what happens next.

How many events have failed or were affected because you couldn't micromanage each and every player's behaviour? Plenty. Bombings during the boxing tournament? Trolling in Ares? It's obvious you can't make everyone behave the way you want him to. What can a Game Master do? Look into the player's heart and pull the right strings.

My god, you are pulling one joke after joke here.


Beside this, all your writings is nothing but loosely words. You know, talking about something and *doing* something are two different things. I can talk and write about creating the best rpg of all times too. But would I get it done?

As long as you don't come with a detailed plan that is in the realms of realism to do, I can't take you serious.

[Nice_Boat]

In order to do this, various mechanics need to be done first. But of course, you would not need anything, just an immortal character who can run around and talk about god and the world. Players for sure will follow you.

No, they wouldn't. They'd think you're drunk and make nothing of it. Would they follow an Enclave captain allowing limited access to tier 4 weaponry and armor and providing good leadership, TC and most of the 2238 faction experience for some basic adherence to common sense rules in return? Of course they would. Some might even leave well-established gangs for that.

Hahaahahahahaha.


Hahhahaha.


Hahhahahahahh.

Hah.

Hehe.

Good one.

Assume you have someone competent enough to organize and lead a faction while acting in-character most of the time. Assume he'd be subject to peer review. How much time would it take to introduce a new faction name and give him GM status? What features would have to be implemented to allow for such an extraordinary feat, which incidentally has been accomplished by oh-so many player groups without any guidance numerous times (aside from the custom name and GM thingie)? But yeah, laugh it off. I'm laughing too, seeing how your competition is getting way ahead in terms of both conceptualization and actual coding.

Every map needs to be controlled, checked, tested, maybe even overworked, then includet into the game. In at least a few cases, speciall scripts might be needed.

You have no shortage of maps. Testing can be outsourced to a large extent, there's a plenty of 3rd party options. And if that doesn't work, you could always use a faction base with some spawned NPCs to stand in for the cache from my example. Adapt, improvise.

It is not. Of course, you will now answer that it is. After this I will answer: Have you worked on the game already? Your answer then will be no. Just to sum up what happens next.

My answer will be yes, I have worked on the game. What now?

My god, you are pulling one joke after joke here.

Beside this, all your writings is nothing but loosely words. You know, talking about something and *doing* something are two different things. I can talk and write about creating the best rpg of all times too. But would I get it done?

As long as you don't come with a detailed plan that is in the realms of realism to do, I can't take you serious.

I've provided a step by step guide to introducing NPC-based factions requiring a two-step intervention from the devs. You're saying that's unrealistic. Faced with such a response, I'm actually at loss for words.

[kttdestroyer]

Yeah, this kind of equipment would be faction specific. Hell, it could be even event specific. Imagine the news of a new stash of hi-tech equipment hidden somewhere in the desert spreading all over the forums with some screenshots and a list including Gauss Rifles and Pulse Rifles with the information that it'll become accessible in a week at 6PM GMT. Imagine the activity this would spur - people going all over the place looking for intel, factions fighting over access to quest-specific NPCs played by GMs, finally a showdown at the stash because shit goes wrong and at the last moment the coordinates are transmitted all over the wasteland and the defence grid is still on preventing the first faction to get there from exfiltrating with the goodies. And yeah, you get Tier 4 equipment in TC during the weeks to come. So what? It's limited and can be made to break down faster/be irreparable. The point is everyone involved had fun, it wasn't scripted, it didn't require fascist-level GM overwatch, it was a PvP conflict with lasting consequences and a new background and it involved spontaneous roleplay when talking to quest-specific NPCs. How comes nothing like this happened yet? Perhaps Surf_Solar and people like him were too busy writing sarcastic posts and being angry at players for not living up to his True Fallout Standards to even notice the possibility

Yes, this is a scenario you got right there. It could even be 3 gauss pistols, or just gauss ammo. But PA also works as things now do get destroyed over time. Such things also would be the "seed" towards diffrent TC, meaning like we have currently, a team with 3 gauss rifles does impose a scenario over the battle (gauss rifle is very nicley implemented btw, rare in an amount that is good and not overpowered to insane levels). What we also need more in my opinion, is that the victory/defeat means something more then just winning/loosing stuff. Like taking over town is bigger thing/more influencing the world and the town over taken. The current situation when town is just switching sides is not really intresting in my opinion... Maybe something like 24h Perma death in TC per Town  

[Lexx]

No, they wouldn't. They'd think you're drunk and make nothing of it. Would they follow an Enclave captain allowing limited access to tier 4 weaponry and armor and providing good leadership, TC and most of the 2238 faction experience for some basic adherence to common sense rules in return? Of course they would.

Of course, everyone would follow for APA. And a few days later, we have a server cluttered with APA.

I'm laughing too, seeing how your competition is getting way ahead in terms of both conceptualization and actual coding.

Do so. I don't even know what competition you are talking about.

My answer will be yes, I have worked on the game. What now?

Never saw you in our dev channel.

[Nice_Boat]

Of course, everyone would follow for APA. And a few days later, we have a server cluttered with APA.

8 suits of armor per month is hardly enough to clutter the server in a matter of days, especially if they were irreparable or would break down faster. Remember CAs when they weren't craftable? Was the server cluttered? And they were easily obtainable in relative terms. Keeping stuff in low supply really isn't rocket science, you know.

Never saw you in our dev channel.

Because I don't work for 2238, neither do I plan to. I just play here from time to time, man.

[Surf]

Because I don't work for 2238, neither do I plan to. I just play here from time to time, man.

Then bless whatever you are working on with you stuff and don't clutter this forum/game with your bullshit.

[Lexx]

Because I don't work for 2238

Then don't say you worked on the game. You never wrote a single line of code for the game, you never includet a map, you never wrote, planned, constructed includet a quest from beginning to the end, you did not wrote any npc, etc. pp. yadda-yadda. But of course, you say "yes, I have worked on the game."

Like I wrote in a post earlier: Talking about something and doing something is not the same.

[Nice_Boat]

Then bless whatever you are working on with you stuff and don't clutter this forum/game with your bullshit.

That was really relevant and helpful to the discussion at hand, thank you kind sir.

Then don't say you worked on the game. You never wrote a single line of code for the game, you never includet a map, you never wrote, planned, constructed includet a quest from beginning to the end, you did not wrote any npc, etc. pp. yadda-yadda.

Is 2238 the only FOnline project out there, or am I missing something here? And even if I didn't - what does it have to do with GMs impersonating certain characters and preparing simple quests, selected factions having GM support in their activities and following certain guidelines and the devs including restricted faction names for these new groups?

[Lexx]

FOnline: 2238 is different than other FOnline projects. We use different tools, have different scripts, etc.

what does it have to do with GMs impersonating certain characters and preparing simple quests, selected factions having GM support in their activities and following certain guidelines and the devs including restricted faction names for these new groups?

Tell me. You started with talking about how easy everything is.


Also to follow a suggestion thread from a few hours ago: This thread might be locked in sooner future, so prepare folks.

[Balthasar]

As i reat through walls of text here i stumbled across the comments about NCR army. I'd like to clear some things out here:

To make this critique a bit more constructive, the closest you ever got to achieving something meaningful was Izual's effort at creating the NCR Army, but there were obvious mistakes that made the project ultimately flop:
- the faction had no persistent impact on the game world; it was more of a player driven special encounter than a group with actual goal

I think you misunderstood the main idea of this project. What's the goal of an army? Right! To protect something. In this case this "something" was the NCR itself and the cities which were more or less under the control of it. This started as a RP project in the FO world and of course it needed some time to organise the players who were participating in it (btw did you took part in it yourself? Can't remember right..). The "goal" of it was a) (in roleplay terms) to secure public areas aswell as patrolling around the NCR controlled places and b) (out of roleplay) to organise players into some kind of meta-faction beside the usual player based gangs and groups.  

- since there was no persistent impact, there was no long-term reward for participating, hence not enough experienced recruits

Reward for participating? You mean to get "l00t" or some fancy NCR armors? Maybe i get you wrong here. The "reward" was to have some fun and also, for some players, the chance to actually get the feeling, to be part of something bigger. I'm speaking of those who don't think of big gang fights in first place when they hear "Fallout Online" for example.

- heavy handed handling when it comes to supplies and character stats - while having everything supplied to you by ther army may be realistic, it's not a good game mechanic when everyone else has to work for his stuff; this contributed heavily to the general perception of the Army being that it's an abuse of the game world - hence even less experienced recruits
- heavy handed handling when it comes to player discipline - again, while having people parade on the base square and go through basic drills and chores may be realistic, it is not enjoyable gameplay - even less people willing to join
- as much as this may hurt, it's a fact - generally incompetent handling during combat situations which combined with "cheated" stats and equipment led to the Army having a rather terrible reputation among normal gangs - they were either the bringers of sudden death or free loot supply, ang given their lack of persistent and predictable goals they couldn't be interacted with on a meaningful level by other factions (you couldn't ambush them, you couldn't fight them over something important or prestiguous - as I've said, just a really weird random encounter)

I think those arguments can be put together since, at least for myself, they draw a clear picture of how the army was seen by some gangs.

First of all the characters in this army had no special stats. Neither they had special weapons or armors. Of course some of the armors looked different to a normal BA for example but actually they had the same characteristics like any normal one. Same goes fort the weapons of course!

Second is that those chars never went out the Military Depot itself. People were lead back to it after a mission. This made sure you couldn't abuse them to get some friend a new weapon/armor or ammunition.

- they were either the bringers of sudden death or free loot supply

Now thats the main problem here. Bigger gangs saw them as some kind of threat to themself, right after this project started. But the main difference here was the fact that this was a roleplay project, included in the actual Fallout world itself. Some big gangs didnt get that into their minds. The army never interrupted TC-fights or cared about gang politics at all.  If i trololo go into the NCR with my 10 buddies and shoot everything down there (inlcuding NPC guards) i shouldn't cry/wonder when after this some army force shows up and takes care of this. Same goes for public places like HUB, where some big bad gang needs to expect some reaction of the government if they just try to claim the whole place for themselfs.

To be honest, in my eyes some gangs just faced the fact that they couldn't do such things, like mentioned above, without the fear that some strike force will come and punish them. But then what was the reaction? Instead of accepting this as a part of the game world like some of them always also claim to be (playing the big raider-gang-roleplay yeah) they cried and screamed ABUZE! which wasn't the case.

[maszrum]

big shame really, that could be intresting topic about towncontol, maybe even devs began to treat seriously sugestion of players who actually playing tc and want to change something to better, help making this game more intresting for everyone.
about creativity of players and their small or bigger projects - we cant start anything becouse we cant even get a name for our projects, which are supose to be related to tc. every free gang names has taken or inappropriate.

[Nice_Boat]

FOnline: 2238 is different than other FOnline projects. We use different tools, have different scripts, etc.

Is it that different when it comes to what a GM can and can't do? Are you telling me giving a faction a custom name (didn't VSB get one? how many times was the list updated with new names?), giving someone GM status, spawning items and teleporting people is that hard? Come on.

Tell me. You started with talking about how easy everything is.

1. Create NPC-based factions.
2. Make qualified GMs lead them.
3. Setup a system of rewards.
4. Let these factions function in the general faction environment.
5. Observe, make minor adjustments and improvements.
6. Repeat 4 through to 6.

For quests:
1. Make announcements on the official forums.
2. Keep it simple, without actual development work involved. Keep the scenarious realistic as far as the game world is concerned, be aware of what players are capable of.
3. Make GMs impersonate NPCs instead of being gamey enforcers/overseers. Let the players do their thing.
4. Spawn rewards at specific locations, spawn critters and use teleportation when necessary. Improvise, have all the mechanical GM work hidden from the participants.
5. Observe, note what went wrong and what went right.
6. Repeat 1 through to 6.

Is it that hard? I mean, really? Impossible? Out of reach? Because the ridiculous part is that all these things have been done before in a rather erratic manner, mostly with no specific goals or attempts at seamless integration into the game world in mind.

[Lexx]

Are you telling me giving a faction a custom name (didn't VSB get one? how many times was the list updated with new names?), giving someone GM status, spawning items and teleporting people is that hard? Come on.

I never wrote anything like this, never wrote about anything like this.

3. Setup a system of rewards.

Details are missing, just like always. But yeah "System of Rewards" sounds better of course.

2. Keep it simple, without actual development work involved.

Thanks captain obvious. There aren't many possibilities if you don't want the ever repeating shit to hit the fan.

4. Spawn rewards at specific locations, spawn critters and use teleportation when necessary. Improvise, have all the mechanical GM work hidden from the participants.

Can only be done with a very small group of players. Else the fastest player will grab everything and the rest got nothing. "Improvise" is also great again. Lack of details are explained with "improvise!"

5. Observe, note what went wrong and what went right.

My god, so this is what we forgot all the time! Thank you again, captain obvious.

Is it that hard? I mean, really? Impossible? Out of reach?

You know what would be even cooler? GMs playing some NPCs who lead an epic battle of Faction A against Faction B in a complicated political plot around Vault City and Gecko!

See, that was super easy! Wait, there is actually hard work behind it to explain, prepare and make sure that everything will work out correct, logical and in a more or less realistic way and so it does not result in "let's make a group, run to some location and kill everything"? Must have overlooked that somehow...