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Town Control
Lexx:
FOnline: 2238 is different than other FOnline projects. We use different tools, have different scripts, etc.
--- Quote ---what does it have to do with GMs impersonating certain characters and preparing simple quests, selected factions having GM support in their activities and following certain guidelines and the devs including restricted faction names for these new groups?
--- End quote ---
Tell me. You started with talking about how easy everything is.
Also to follow a suggestion thread from a few hours ago: This thread might be locked in sooner future, so prepare folks.
Balthasar:
As i reat through walls of text here i stumbled across the comments about NCR army. I'd like to clear some things out here:
--- Quote ---To make this critique a bit more constructive, the closest you ever got to achieving something meaningful was Izual's effort at creating the NCR Army, but there were obvious mistakes that made the project ultimately flop:
- the faction had no persistent impact on the game world; it was more of a player driven special encounter than a group with actual goal
--- End quote ---
I think you misunderstood the main idea of this project. What's the goal of an army? Right! To protect something. In this case this "something" was the NCR itself and the cities which were more or less under the control of it. This started as a RP project in the FO world and of course it needed some time to organise the players who were participating in it (btw did you took part in it yourself? Can't remember right..). The "goal" of it was a) (in roleplay terms) to secure public areas aswell as patrolling around the NCR controlled places and b) (out of roleplay) to organise players into some kind of meta-faction beside the usual player based gangs and groups.
--- Quote ---- since there was no persistent impact, there was no long-term reward for participating, hence not enough experienced recruits
--- End quote ---
Reward for participating? You mean to get "l00t" or some fancy NCR armors? Maybe i get you wrong here. The "reward" was to have some fun and also, for some players, the chance to actually get the feeling, to be part of something bigger. I'm speaking of those who don't think of big gang fights in first place when they hear "Fallout Online" for example.
--- Quote ---- heavy handed handling when it comes to supplies and character stats - while having everything supplied to you by ther army may be realistic, it's not a good game mechanic when everyone else has to work for his stuff; this contributed heavily to the general perception of the Army being that it's an abuse of the game world - hence even less experienced recruits
- heavy handed handling when it comes to player discipline - again, while having people parade on the base square and go through basic drills and chores may be realistic, it is not enjoyable gameplay - even less people willing to join
- as much as this may hurt, it's a fact - generally incompetent handling during combat situations which combined with "cheated" stats and equipment led to the Army having a rather terrible reputation among normal gangs - they were either the bringers of sudden death or free loot supply, ang given their lack of persistent and predictable goals they couldn't be interacted with on a meaningful level by other factions (you couldn't ambush them, you couldn't fight them over something important or prestiguous - as I've said, just a really weird random encounter)
--- End quote ---
I think those arguments can be put together since, at least for myself, they draw a clear picture of how the army was seen by some gangs.
First of all the characters in this army had no special stats. Neither they had special weapons or armors. Of course some of the armors looked different to a normal BA for example but actually they had the same characteristics like any normal one. Same goes fort the weapons of course!
Second is that those chars never went out the Military Depot itself. People were lead back to it after a mission. This made sure you couldn't abuse them to get some friend a new weapon/armor or ammunition.
--- Quote ---- they were either the bringers of sudden death or free loot supply
--- End quote ---
Now thats the main problem here. Bigger gangs saw them as some kind of threat to themself, right after this project started. But the main difference here was the fact that this was a roleplay project, included in the actual Fallout world itself. Some big gangs didnt get that into their minds. The army never interrupted TC-fights or cared about gang politics at all. If i trololo go into the NCR with my 10 buddies and shoot everything down there (inlcuding NPC guards) i shouldn't cry/wonder when after this some army force shows up and takes care of this. Same goes for public places like HUB, where some big bad gang needs to expect some reaction of the government if they just try to claim the whole place for themselfs.
To be honest, in my eyes some gangs just faced the fact that they couldn't do such things, like mentioned above, without the fear that some strike force will come and punish them. But then what was the reaction? Instead of accepting this as a part of the game world like some of them always also claim to be (playing the big raider-gang-roleplay ;) yeah) they cried and screamed ABUZE! which wasn't the case.
maszrum:
big shame really, that could be intresting topic about towncontol, maybe even devs began to treat seriously sugestion of players who actually playing tc and want to change something to better, help making this game more intresting for everyone.
about creativity of players and their small or bigger projects - we cant start anything becouse we cant even get a name for our projects, which are supose to be related to tc. every free gang names has taken or inappropriate.
Nice_Boat:
--- Quote from: Lexx on February 06, 2011, 08:30:16 PM ---FOnline: 2238 is different than other FOnline projects. We use different tools, have different scripts, etc.
--- End quote ---
Is it that different when it comes to what a GM can and can't do? Are you telling me giving a faction a custom name (didn't VSB get one? how many times was the list updated with new names?), giving someone GM status, spawning items and teleporting people is that hard? Come on.
--- Quote from: Lexx on February 06, 2011, 08:30:16 PM ---Tell me. You started with talking about how easy everything is.
--- End quote ---
1. Create NPC-based factions.
2. Make qualified GMs lead them.
3. Setup a system of rewards.
4. Let these factions function in the general faction environment.
5. Observe, make minor adjustments and improvements.
6. Repeat 4 through to 6.
For quests:
1. Make announcements on the official forums.
2. Keep it simple, without actual development work involved. Keep the scenarious realistic as far as the game world is concerned, be aware of what players are capable of.
3. Make GMs impersonate NPCs instead of being gamey enforcers/overseers. Let the players do their thing.
4. Spawn rewards at specific locations, spawn critters and use teleportation when necessary. Improvise, have all the mechanical GM work hidden from the participants.
5. Observe, note what went wrong and what went right.
6. Repeat 1 through to 6.
Is it that hard? I mean, really? Impossible? Out of reach? Because the ridiculous part is that all these things have been done before in a rather erratic manner, mostly with no specific goals or attempts at seamless integration into the game world in mind.
Lexx:
--- Quote ---Are you telling me giving a faction a custom name (didn't VSB get one? how many times was the list updated with new names?), giving someone GM status, spawning items and teleporting people is that hard? Come on.
--- End quote ---
I never wrote anything like this, never wrote about anything like this.
--- Quote ---3. Setup a system of rewards.
--- End quote ---
Details are missing, just like always. But yeah "System of Rewards" sounds better of course.
--- Quote ---2. Keep it simple, without actual development work involved.
--- End quote ---
Thanks captain obvious. There aren't many possibilities if you don't want the ever repeating shit to hit the fan.
--- Quote ---4. Spawn rewards at specific locations, spawn critters and use teleportation when necessary. Improvise, have all the mechanical GM work hidden from the participants.
--- End quote ---
Can only be done with a very small group of players. Else the fastest player will grab everything and the rest got nothing. "Improvise" is also great again. Lack of details are explained with "improvise!"
--- Quote ---5. Observe, note what went wrong and what went right.
--- End quote ---
My god, so this is what we forgot all the time! Thank you again, captain obvious.
--- Quote ---Is it that hard? I mean, really? Impossible? Out of reach?
--- End quote ---
You know what would be even cooler? GMs playing some NPCs who lead an epic battle of Faction A against Faction B in a complicated political plot around Vault City and Gecko!
See, that was super easy! Wait, there is actually hard work behind it to explain, prepare and make sure that everything will work out correct, logical and in a more or less realistic way and so it does not result in "let's make a group, run to some location and kill everything"? Must have overlooked that somehow...
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