Other > General Game Discussion
Mercs & militia are imba?
Hololasima:
Whining ? Tell me how you can fight with someone in town full of militia ? Its morning, you have 3 players and you will see 5 enemies. You think you can fight them ? Of course that no.
Or, you are running somewere near exit grid and you just get 5 rocket and insta death. And what a surprise ? You couldnt defend yourself.
Whining ? Please
You know answers, dont try something like "Stop fighting in towns where is militia or dont be somewhere near exit grids"
Surf:
--- Quote from: Graf on January 21, 2011, 08:58:49 AM ---I have to disagree with that. What I did, is a post that shown a true nature of this topic. Sometimes it's necessary to do something like that to stop a discussion that leads nowhere.
And yes, I've read this topic before replying and found there a lot of whining which is very annoying.
--- End quote ---
Apparently you fail to conceive the process of beta testing and the difference between "whining" and feedback/discussions. Doesn't surprise me though, seeing the nature of some of your other posts. Mayhaps you shouldn't write in this thread anymore.
wezu:
Well, the general idea behind militia and mercs is good.
When you pay a-lot-o-caps, you should get something that has a-lot-o-power.
But maybe it's gone to far? Is having 5 mutants like a 'I win' button? Is militia godlike? That I can't say.
But I can say that getting caps for personal armies is way to easy for some players. That should be changed (I've gave some pointers how elsewhere).
... and if people use multilogs to spam mercs... Do you realy think mercs are the problem? C'mon...
avv:
This isn't just about militia & mutants. It's about how grinding is the basis of power in pvp.
--- Quote from: Hololasima on January 20, 2011, 09:05:26 PM ---And who from these players "which" complaining actually tasted their medicine ?
--- End quote ---
Those who couldn't cope with mutants and militia. Now the enemy has superior equipment and giving them hard time.
That's what I'd call taste of one's own medicine.
--- Quote from: NixonVSB on January 20, 2011, 10:40:20 PM ---Major problem of mercs is their artilery (spawn instakill ability), because one proxy merc leader could eliminate 4 or 5 real players, i will repear it again: 1 click of real player could eliminate 4 or 5 also real players. This has nothing to do with fair play and with game balance or with challenging genius tactic of enemy. Nobody use mercs in the middle of map, it is only the artilery or stopper at spawn points. Using mercs in the middle of cities needs full atention and they are there less powerfull.
--- End quote ---
It is fair in terms of current game settings. The one who bought the mutants paid caps, so he received power. In same way when you buy BA with caps, you receive power. If the mutants are too powerful for their current price, the logical solution would be to raise the price but that wouldn't help since all you need is time to grind.
--- Quote ---I dont believe that any aproach based on economy changes would affect imba of mercs. If you set harder condition to get those mercs (bigger value), only most powerfull gang would use them. Most powerfull in this game means most numerous gang. If you set conditions too low, it is the spam of supermutants like now.
--- End quote ---
This is true.
--- Quote ---Do mercs raising the gamebalance of PvP or they dont?
--- End quote ---
You can't put it that way. Only thing that matters here is how much time/people you got to get caps.
--- Quote --- Would the PvP be less entertaining without mercs or not?
--- End quote ---
Leader builds need their place too.
--- Quote ---Is there any real ingame possibility to eliminate mercs proxy abusing or not?
--- End quote ---
Yes. It's purely a matter of strategic options available in pvp. Add more options where players can invest their skills, instead of caps and there should be results. Combat is too dependent on your equipment and less dependent on how good you play. If there was a chance for players to hone their skills, they would win even much wealthier opponents.
--- Quote from: wezu on January 21, 2011, 10:00:01 AM ---Well, the general idea behind militia and mercs is good.
When you pay a-lot-o-caps, you should get something that has a-lot-o-power.
But maybe it's gone to far? Is having 5 mutants like a 'I win' button? Is militia godlike? That I can't say.
But I can say that getting caps for personal armies is way to easy for some players. That should be changed (I've gave some pointers how elsewhere).
--- End quote ---
The idea is the worst thing. You grind = you get to decide what happens to another player. Would you like it if some day you logged in and found your character deleted because someone paid 10million caps? He paid the caps, he deserves results right? The mutants are similar I win button as minigun is against bluesuit.
You can't balance pvp based on people's freetime.
Lordus:
--- Quote from: wezu on January 21, 2011, 10:00:01 AM ---Well, the general idea behind militia and mercs is good.
When you pay a-lot-o-caps, you should get something that has a-lot-o-power.
But maybe it's gone to far? Is having 5 mutants like a 'I win' button? Is militia godlike? That I can't say.
But I can say that getting caps for personal armies is way to easy for some players. That should be changed (I've gave some pointers how elsewhere).
... and if people use multilogs to spam mercs... Do you realy think mercs are the problem? C'mon...
--- End quote ---
You seriously missing the fact that there is a very difference between using mercs (supermutants) regulary and using them as artilery. Supermutants itself does not cause of imbalance of PvP, but the fact that you can kill even 5 players by one click and there is not any effective defence agaisnt this.
So you collect your friends to evening PvP, you take your best stuff, you prepare for battle, prepare tactics, you enter the city and you die, because one polish boy use his second comp or proxy so he attack you and he does not even needs to focus at that mutant leader. Its suicide of that mutants, without any negative impact (negative karma for NPCs traders,.. ).
So again, one small proxy cheater destory fun of 5 real human players in five seconds after one click (because he has already prepared his muties over that locaiton he wants to enter). And again, during PvP, teams uses this tactic not once, but twice or even more.
And beause you need proxy to do this tactic (because noone sane will stay only over the map and wait for mates instruction, he wants to fight too), cheating teams are in huge advantage againt them who does not cheat.
This is simple stetament, prooved by many photos, vides, testaments of PvP players and nobody cares.
Problem is, that this makes maps like Redding unplayable, because if enemy holds right bottom corner and they have muties over the South and Downtown entrances, WHOLE area around main street and south east of map is death trap. This does not have anything to do with good gameplay.
And solution? Temporary is simple.. Disable NPC merc traders... Slavers would still enslave their chars and this would help gamebalance again.
Devs, GM, one suggestion: try to join few TC PvP actions and test how funny is to challenge or die cause of mutans (mercs). It is absurd, because you did a great job to balance PvP this era, with one exception...
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