Other > Suggestions
Pickpocketing/Tagging
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---But then the abusers would just peek in your inventory without taking anything. This would have the same effect as current abuse.
--- End quote ---
Pretending to use steal is exactly what the problem is.
Besides, they might be using the repair skill simply to scare you away from the trader.
Note that shoot & loot teams do use steal skill to check inventories.
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---By having a method to keep an eye on someone and certainly catch him if he tries to steal. How would that differ from running anyway? You can't steal from someone if keeps an eye on you in both cases. The only real difference would be that your char gets caught and unprotected which is only fair.
--- End quote ---
Nerving a skill to a state which makes it unusable is unfair.
There are too many people in the interesting areas to make it possible to steal.
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---That's another problem entirely.
--- End quote ---
Are you sure? A good shoot & loot team uses the steal skill to check inventories.
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---How can you say it's not about items if you are after items while stealing? You want the item, the victim wants to keep it.
The victim loses time also, maybe he was going to finish a deal with npc or player but he had to run away.
Still the victim has to be on his toes all the time, he gets no peace even if he knows who thief is.
In addition the victory conditions aren't fair. The victim cannot put preissure on the thief the same way the thief can do to the victim. Thief can be after you forever but you can't be after him.
--- End quote ---
I said winning or losing is not about items or killing.
With a failed steal attempt the thief also loses time.
Once again, you can't stop people from grieving or abusing a skill. Why nerve a skill when people who don't put points in it choose to abuse it?
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---How's that any differend? You cause them troubble, that's all what counts.
Losing items counts as troubble.
It doesn't matter what you do in the end, because there are other thieves with differend motives. By pointing out that you steal from your enemies I tried to explain that stealing is like pvp. You use it to cause troubble to your enemies so it's pvp. And because it is pvp, same rules must apply to it aswell. If you can cause them troubble, they must be allowed to cause troubble to you in the same scenario at the same volume.
--- End quote ---
Using a skill like steal against someone is grieving to me.
Using it on someone to do with that skill what it's supposed to be used for is fine.
If the victim walks away, he's aware of me. No need to try again.
It's not harassment, grieving or whatever. It's making proper use of a skill.
Stealing is not pvp, that you perceive it that way is up to you.
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---It's not up to you to state how things are.
--- End quote ---
I stated a fact. People paying attention walk away.
--- Quote from: avv on December 28, 2010, 01:38:30 PM ---Fighting or competition. That's usually how games solve things to keep everyone happy.
--- End quote ---
It's not an MMOFPS, it's an MMORPG.
There's more than 1 way to solve a problem.
You can finish both FO1 an FO2 without killing anyone.
avv:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on December 28, 2010, 02:03:19 PM ---Nerving a skill to a state which makes it unusable is unfair.
There are too many people in the interesting areas to make it possible to steal.
--- End quote ---
It depends on how the system turns out. I don't really care what are the specifics of such system where players could catch thieves with their ingame actions. All that matters is that they can do it if they play well. I call it fair if both sides (thief & victim) can affect their chances with their actions.
--- Quote ---Are you sure? A good shoot & loot team uses the steal skill to check inventories.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't matter what they do. Shoot'n'loot is just exploit.
--- Quote ---I said winning or losing is not about items or killing.
--- End quote ---
In fonline it is. Killing someone you want dead when they don't want to die or taking someone's items when they don't want to lose them is regarded as victory for you and defeat to the target.
--- Quote ---With a failed steal attempt the thief also loses time.
--- End quote ---
Failed steal attempt has nothing to do with neither player's actions. It's just a random occurance. The victim didn't cause the fail so it cannot be regarded as victory to him. It's just an accident for the thief. If the victim could somehow intentionally cause the thief to be caught, it could be called a victory for him.
--- Quote ---Once again, you can't stop people from grieving or abusing a skill. Why nerve a skill when people who don't put points in it choose to abuse it?
--- End quote ---
Sure you can stop them from abusing. If there was a method to catch a thief with clever gameplay, fake steal abusers couldn't do anything to a smart player. If they used fake steal, they'd get nothing and the victim could just relax knowing they're just abusing because they didn't get caught. If they were trying to just peek in his inventory, they'd be caught and shot.
--- Quote ---Stealing is not pvp, that you perceive it that way is up to you.
--- End quote ---
Then what it is? Players aren't cabinets you take items from for free. There are living guys behind every char with their own plans. If you step in and mess with their plans by taking items from them, you're messing with players. When you're messing with players and doing things to them they don't want and they are trying to prevent you it is pvp. They are struggling not to get stolen from and you are struggling to steal from them. Effort against effort.
In combat pvp there are 2 players trying to kill each other. Same thing: effort vs effort. Every time when there's a situation where 2 players have crossed desires and they compete against each other to achieve their goals it's pvp. It doesn't matter what the scenario is as long as there's crossed desires, a way to gain upper hand and enforce your opponent.
There's even pvp in shopping: who gets the freshly spawned caps and items.
--- Quote ---I stated a fact. People paying attention walk away.
--- End quote ---
That's just how it is now. We're discussing if it's okay and what could be instead of it. Stating obviousnesses doesn't get us anywhere.
--- Quote ---It's not an MMOFPS, it's an MMORPG.
There's more than 1 way to solve a problem.
You can finish both FO1 an FO2 without killing anyone.
--- End quote ---
The point was that mmo games have to do with players competing against each other.
ronillon:
Successfull steal attempt should be needed even for checking the inventory. They do not steal items, but they mess with you (stealing info about your inventory).
When someone is using a skill on you, the game should let you know in the chat/log. (Player XY used a First Aid on you. You gain 20HP.), (Player XY used a Science on you. That does nothing.) But successfull steal attempt, would cause no message to the victim.
(Different animations would be better, but i guess we will have to wait untill 3D.)
May be change the steal formula a bit so: Victim (PE+Steal) vs. Thief (Steal).
It seems more real and fair to me. Less abuse, thieves are fine.
And i think, that when a thiev fails to steal from the member of guards faction, he should be heavily punnished (unless the guard is bribed). Big reputation loss / death / jail.
Wobbles84:
Thieves should not be allowed to steal from other players... I cant even log in because some idiot with a massive gun is taking what little I have. I've only started playing the game and have lost everything but my caps which are in the bank. Why should it be allowed to happen if you cant even store your gear in the bank?! Oh and it's not pvp at all if you cant defend yourself in a heavily guarded town. Its harassment...
Edit: It would be better and realistic if the npc guards see someone pickpocketing as an attack.
Reginmund:
--- Quote from: Wobbles84 on January 11, 2011, 05:16:36 AM ---Thieves should not be allowed to steal from other players... I cant even log in because some idiot with a massive gun is taking what little I have. I've only started playing the game and have lost everything but my caps which are in the bank. Why should it be allowed to happen if you cant even store your gear in the bank?! Oh and it's not pvp at all if you cant defend yourself in a heavily guarded town. Its harassment...
--- End quote ---
1. obtain 10 brahmin hides ( beg, buy, strike a deal with another player or plain just steal, its up to you)
2. construct tent
3. ??
4. Profit!
All part of the game, you can rage and keep going at it or rage quit. It helps that you lose stuff very early on if you are new since you should be expecting not to be able to get the stuff back. This way you can accept the loss of better stuff in the future.
I recall TLA had item storage some time back but i don't know if that's changed as i haven't been to that server in quite a long time. Only thing is you cant hang around in there for long (about 30s or so iirc) or you get killed by the guards and you lose your stuff.
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