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[ElSlayer]

My warm greetings to Community.

They say here on 2238 forums that devs won't give info about critical hit tables for players.
I've decided to create this thread in order to try to convince them to do it.

Why it should be published?

Any game mechanic that wasn't modified by devs can be found on some inet resources. (for example fallout.wikia.com)

Anyone, who don't rely on aimed shots (Bursters, grenaders, rocketlaunchers, flamers or even just FastShooters) can calculate their approximate damage with any weapons against any armors because formulas of damage done is in free access.

But crit hit table for players WAS modified. And those, who put stakes on criticals (snipers, cripplers, melee) can't calculate approx damage.

Actually they are fighting like walking through heavy fog.
I know my chance to crit, but I don't know surely will it be critial.
But even if it is, I don't know what are the chances of critical effects and even what crit effects are!

So I can't plan what to do: to shoot head or groin to knock him out?
Or maybe just cripple hand because I see that he is using 2-h weapon?

Example #1: I'm using weapon with laser type of damage. My enemy wearing Metal Armor MK II. I need to do a few armor penetration crits to kill him. Where to target if he always turn off his eyes?

Example #2: I see a guy with low max hp. I suppose that he has low endurance stat. So he can be crippled or knocked out quite easily. What are the chances of crippling or knocking him out? What shoud I try to do? If these chances are low enough maybe should I just try to maximize my damage and just kill him without stunning or cripling?

I don't know will it be crit or not. I don't know what roll will be there if it is crit. And finally I don't know what effect should I expect if I target that particular body part.

That's a damn shooting with my eyes closed.

So... that's my arguments.

And here is my first question to You, devs: why you don't want make critical hit table for players public?

[OskaRus]

Thats another undiscoverable mystery of FOnline. I think only way how to obtain those information is to actually measure them. (making 100 of crits on your friend or something like that...)

[avv]

Even if you knew exactly what chances you had to cause something like weapon drop, how would it affect your gameplay? You can already calculate your crit chance against specific spots and with better crits headshot most likely means knockdown and hand shot is likely to result in weapon drop.

The way I see it, crits are poor man's measure of self defense. Something to block the overpower of equipment. Crits with random damage outcome aren't totally not good for pvp combat in general but they are good for current fonline pvp where equipment means alot.

Anyone, who don't rely on aimed shots (Bursters, grenaders, rocketlaunchers, flamers or even just FastShooters) can calculate their approximate damage with any weapons against any armors because formulas of damage done is in free access

Crit damage is based on luck and side-effects like knockdown so one does not simply calculate the average damage output.

[ElSlayer]

Even if you knew exactly what chances you had to cause something like weapon drop, how would it affect your gameplay? You can already calculate your crit chance against specific spots and with better crits headshot most likely means knockdown and hand shot is likely to result in weapon drop.

"Most likely" isn't enough for me. I need to make right choice. To shoot head or groin. Or leg. Or maybe arm. That is how it affects my gameplay. And I need the full information about chances, effects and rolls to make a right choice.

The way I see it, crits are poor man's measure of self defense. Something to block the overpower of equipment. Crits with random damage outcome aren't totally not good for pvp combat in general but they are good for current fonline pvp where equipment means alot.

Agreed. There was a situation when I wearing bluesuit, plain laser pistol and having 11 hp (The Poor Man ) killed a guy with 190 hp wearing tesla and assault. With 2 shots.
That was my lucky day, but if I had BoS CA, plasma rifle and full hp my chances raises greatly. So that's not just "poor man's measure of self defense". That is a real Great Weapon of Punishment.

Crit damage is based on luck and side-effects like knockdown so one does not simply calculate the average damage output.

Again... Most of those guys with LSW don't count on crits. They just shoot you. Hard. Painfully. SURELY painfully. They just know that one burst will do about 70-80 dmg to Metal Armor MK II in a medium range.

For me... I can win if I place right crit effect in right situation. I will try to do most sutable for situation and with highest chance. Chance of crit effect depends on crit roll BUT (!!!) sometimes it also depends on a STAT roll (EN? or EN - 3? or LK?).
I can suggest that guy with high max hp (>200) has high EN stat, and guy with low max hp (<180) has low EN. So I'll plan what to do using that knowledge.
But again there is lack of information about critical hit table.
"That's a 50 DKP minus cuz u didn't know WTF to do!"

And some of crit effects has higher chance of happening because crit rolls are bracketed between certain numbers:
0-20 (21% chance without Better Criticals and 0% chance with perk)
21-45 (25% chance)
46-70 (25% chance)
71-90 (20% chance)
91-100 (10% chance)
101+ (0% chance without Better Criticals and 20% chance because it is 101-120 with +20 bonus of Better Criticals perk)

[Wipe]

Playing with calculator in second hand isn't funny :/

[ElSlayer]

Playing with calculator in second hand isn't funny :/

I knew that someone will say something like that. By the way, you're right

[Izual]

More calculation, yeah. That ain't good.

[ElSlayer]

More calculation, yeah. That ain't good.

Let players decide what good or bad for them, right?

[avv]

"Most likely" isn't enough for me. I need to make right choice. To shoot head or groin. Or leg. Or maybe arm.

But even then you have to face the "most likely" factor because there is a chance of not getting the crit. The situation doesn't raise your chances to roll a succesful crit, you can't affect the dice-roll with your ingame decisions. Even if you did know the tables, you can't know your opponents luck and endurance (unless full health) or perks which both affect crit outcome.

"That's a 50 DKP minus cuz u didn't know WTF to do!"

Just aim for the eyes lol. Even with best crit chance possible the chance to cripple legs or arms is pretty poor. Unless you have 14 aps and there's good distance between you and the target and he has no friends. Yet still you could just spam headshots.

[wezu]

But even then you have to face the "most likely" factor because there is a chance of not getting the crit. The situation doesn't raise your chances to roll a succesful crit, you can't affect the dice-roll with your ingame decisions. Even if you did know the tables, you can't know your opponents luck and endurance (unless full health) or perks which both affect crit outcome.

Just aim for the eyes lol. Even with best crit chance possible the chance to cripple legs or arms is pretty poor. Unless you have 14 aps and there's good distance between you and the target and he has no friends. Yet still you could just spam headshots.

Well you can know what stats and perk one is most likely to have. There are only 7 perks and with most builds 5-6 are a must-have. The same with stats.
Anymay knowing that is pointless (apart from EN/stonewall) since we don't know how it affects critical hits.

I see some pro but no (real) con.
On the other hand this is something I can live without.

[ElSlayer]

But even then you have to face the "most likely" factor because there is a chance of not getting the crit.
The situation doesn't raise your chances to roll a succesful crit, you can't affect the dice-roll with your ingame decisions.

Nobody is talking about chance to crit. We're talking about critical hit table - chance of placing certain critical effect.

I can decide to aim body part, where chance of particular crit effect is higher than if I would aim others. That's how my ingame decision affects chance to place certain crit effect.

Even if you did know the tables, you can't know your opponents luck and endurance (unless full health) or perks which both affect crit outcome.

With awareness I can always see full health. So I can suggest of enemy's EN stat.

Just aim for the eyes lol.

Most of experienced players turn off their eyes away from line of fire if they can. And most of the time they can.

Even with best crit chance possible the chance to cripple legs or arms is pretty poor. Unless you have 14 aps and there's good distance between you and the target and he has no friends.

One of my characters have 12 ap and BRoF. With luck 6, finesse and lvl 1 of more criticals perk I have 46.2% chance to crit aiming arms.
I can shoot twice using energy rifle.

Chance to crit  = 46.2
---------------
Chance that both shots will crit          = 46.2 * 46.2                      = 21.3%
Chance that only one of shots will crit = 53.8 * 46.2  + 46.2 * 53.8 = 49,7112%
Chance that both shots won't crit        = 100 - 21.3 - 49.7112        = 28,9888%
---------------
Chance that AT LEAST ONE shot will crit = 71,0112%

That is not so bad, is it? Max chance to crit with ONE shot aiming arm if youre the True Sniper with LK = 10, finesse, lvl 3 More Crits is 65%.
But snipers usually shoot once.

Did I prove that aiming arms can be good choice in some situations?
Hell no.
Why?
Because I don't know what the chance of crippling even if it is crit.
How can I know the chance?
Ahhhh... again, the chance can be calculated using info from Critical Hit Table for players

Yet still you could just spam headshots.

Yeah, yeah. Of course the best choice is not to think, just spam and done.

The point is to give players more info about game mechanics in order to give wider choice of actions in combat situation. It sounds great, isn't it?   

[ElSlayer]

The table below is critical hit table of original Fallout 2 for human men.

Quick look on it (absolutely no calculations ) tells us that every critical hit in the head (if you took Better Criticals) gives you chance to knockout your enemy.
The less EN stat he has, the higher chance.

If we add here that SPECIAL system using d20 rolls we have:

Chance to knockout if aiming head (having Better Criticals perk):
Summ of ([Crit chance aiming head] * [Chance of roll] * (1 - [Chance of successful enemy's stat roll]) for each category of roll.

[Chance of successful enemy's stat roll] = (EN + [Modifier] / 20)

Max chance to crit if aiming head is 75% (with LK = 10, finesse, lvl 3 More Criticals)
So I will calculate it as if you're The True Sniper

Now if our enemy has 10 EN the parts of summ will be:
For   21-45:     0.75 * 0.25 * (1 - (10 + 0)/20) = 0.09375
For   46-70:     0.75 * 0.25 * (1 - (10 - 3)/20)  = 0.121875
For   71-90:     0.75 * 0.20 * (1 - (10 - 3)/20)  = 0.0975
For 91-100:     0.75 * 0.10 * 1                      = 0.075
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summ:                                                      = 0,388125

We have 39% chance of knockout opponent with 10 EN and 15% to kill him instantly.
But this is original F2.

Now I want to know what is behind the scenes of FOnline.

Roll	Head	Torso	Eyes	Groin	Arms	Legs
0-20	Damage x 2.0	Damage x 1.5	Damage x 2.0 Roll LK with +4 bonus or get blinded	Damage x 1.5	Damage x 1.5	Damage x 1.5 knockdown
21-45	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor Roll EN, or get knocked out	Damage x 1.5 Ignores armor	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor Roll LK +3 or get blinded	Damage x 1.5 Ignores armor Roll EN -3 or get knocked down	Damage x 1.5 Lose turn	Damage x 1.5 knockdown Roll EN or get Crippled
46-70	Damage x 2.5 Ignores armor Roll EN with -3 penalty, or get knocked out	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockdown	Damage x 3.0 Ignores armor Roll LK +2 or get blinded	Damage x 1.5 knockdown Roll EN -3 or get knocked out	Damage x 2.0 Roll EN -3 or get Crippled	Damage x 2.0 knockdown Roll EN -3 or get Crippled
71-90	Damage x 2.5 Ignores armor knockdown Roll EN with -3 penalty, or get knocked out	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockdown	Damage x 3.0 Ignores armor Blindness Lose turn	Damage x 2.0 Knockout	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor Crippled	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockdown Crippled
91-100	Damage x 3.0 Ignores armor Knockout Roll LK or get blinded	Damage x 3.0 Ignores armor knockout	Damage x 4.0 Ignores armor Blindness knockout	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockdown Roll EN or get knocked out	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor Crippled	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockdown Crippled Roll EN, or get knocked out
101+	Damage x 3.0 Instant death	Damage x 3.0 Instant death	Damage x 4.0 Instant death	Damage x 3.0 Ignores armor Knockout	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor Crippled	Damage x 2.0 Ignores armor knockout Crippled
% Accuracy	Base - 40	Base	Base - 60	Base - 30	Base - 30	Base - 20

[avv]

The point is to give players more info about game mechanics in order to give wider choice of actions in combat situation. It sounds great, isn't it?   

Nothing wrong with that, I'll support it. What I tried to point out here was that whether you knew the effect tables or not, it wouldn't matter that much when it came to target acquisition. At least wouldn't matter to me that much (I play crit build too) but looks like you think more than I do  .

[Floodnik]

I can shoot twice using energy rifle.

Chance to crit  = 46.2
---------------
Chance that both shots will crit          = 46.2 * 46.2                      = 21.3%
Chance that only one of shots will crit = 53.8 * 46.2  + 46.2 * 53.8 = 49,7112%
Chance that both shots won't crit        = 100 - 21.3 - 49.7112        = 28,9888%
---------------
Chance that AT LEAST ONE shot will crit = 71,0112%

That is not so bad, is it? Max chance to crit with ONE shot aiming arm if youre the True Sniper with LK = 10, finesse, lvl 3 More Crits is 65%.

Oh fuck! So RavenousRat was right! It's better to make a two-shot build.

BTW. Who the fuck destroyed the critical chance wiki page?!

    * Basic crit rate equals your Luck.
    * Add 10% if you take Finesse
    * Add 5% for each level of More Critical (can be take up to 3 times)
    * Up to 60% for Aimed Shot (depends on aimed body part and Luck)
 

1. That information is wrong... The formula is (60+4*luck)/100*aim bonus+crit chance
Aim bonus - the bonus you get from aiming into a body part
2. Aim bonus list got removed.

[ElSlayer]

BTW. Who the fuck destroyed the critical chance wiki page?!

You can modify wiki by yourself. Just type in the correct info.
BTW I've got strange feeling about who did it...
I think that it is those guys who usually carrying LSW in their hands in order to make life harder for snipers 

Oh fuck! So RavenousRat was right! It's better to make a two-shot build.

And you don't need to play with calculator in other hand.
You can do same calculations for... almost everything... before the game and even better if it is done before character generation.

Knowledge is Power.

And I can imagine what could be done if we (players) get the knowledge about Critical Hit Table for players...  M-m-m...