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Author Topic: Armor Class and Weapons  (Read 3171 times)

Tomowolf

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Armor Class and Weapons
« on: November 16, 2010, 02:45:05 pm »

What is Armor Class?
Its the points which gives you an "evade" chance from the bullets - but now its working very bad.
Now armor class gives only Armors - but they shouldn't - why ? There is an answer!
Armors
Armors are heavy - that gives only you an disadvantage in AC
For Example it should looks like :
Leather jacket - low resistance - but high armor class
Leather Armor low - medium resistance - medium high armor class
Metal armor - medium resistance - medium armor class
Combat Armor - high resistance - low armor class
You ask why?
Because armors are heavy - its hard to make an "matrix move" in a hi-tech heavy Combat armor.
The armors should give an advantages and disadvantages.
Weapons
As we know that there are some weapons in game (yeah we know this) BUT some are heavy and some are light for example :
BGs are heavy - so it gives you big minus in AC
Energy Weapons (pistols don't metioned) are medium weight -so they should give you medium minus in AC
SGs are light weapons - and they should give you small minus in AC
Unarmed and melee weapons shouldnt (don't metioned sledges) give you any minus into AC
Drugs
Drugs only gives you Action Points and Resistance and some bonus points (like strength , perception etc.) but they would give you also AC - by drikning nuka cola - your Agilitiy is increased - but the AC should be increased MORE to (not only by 1 point) so it will balance someway the Guns and the Fight.
For example :
We got a guy : he wears a leather jacket and some pistol/sg - his firepower is low and the resistance too but he is hard to get by bullets and other example
someone wears a combat armor and a bg - he is much resistant and his firepower is big (enough) but he is easily shot by others

And one more sugestion
Now SGs are not enough to be forced to PvP - we only use 223 pistol and sniper rifles and smgs - but what about... Shotguns?
Shotguns in Fallout Tactics were main used weapons in multiplayer - they had bigger firepower - so why don't buff them enough to make "non crit" damage for a bout 130 points?
Also the ammunition in FT was other (green slugs for leather and purple for metal) so why don't add it from Fallout Tactic  - it will give more options to use ALL weapons we got to PVP

Next suggestion is about melee weapons - let me say smething trueful - they have nothing more option than a killing zilions of molerats in tb(other monster too)
Why don't give a trait (it will change with the Sex Appeal)
The trais is about : When you got a gun your Armor class/resistance is lowered (-30%) but when you use melee weapon or unarmed weapon your resistance/armor class is much bigger (+25%).
Thats all from me. Please give a comment.
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jan0s1k

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 03:01:42 pm »

Nope, we don't need this, also it will be abusable by players who run with example BA and with avenger on second hand, someone shoot him and he quickly change his weapon on avenger and kill him ;p
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Tomowolf

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 03:10:34 pm »

Nope, we don't need this, also it will be abusable by players who run with example BA and with avenger on second hand, someone shoot him and he quickly change his weapon on avenger and kill him ;p
Second hand is meaned too ;)
If you got 2x Avengers in 2 slots - your AC is lowered 2x
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Lordus

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 03:11:11 pm »

Devs want implement AC as a new kind of defence in future. Instead of high DR and DT, you could use trait, perks and armors to raise your AC.
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Graf

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 03:36:43 pm »

Nope, we don't need this, also it will be abusable by players who run with example BA and with avenger on second hand, someone shoot him and he quickly change his weapon on avenger and kill him ;p
Why do you love to tell "WE" instead of "Me" or "I" so much? I personally agree with that suggestion completely, since the PvP now requires changes as never before.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 03:38:17 pm by Graf »
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Bantz

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 03:48:04 pm »

The pvp now is balanced as never was. Devs, GMs and players spent a lot time on this. But every change like this needs to rebalance again and its a lot of work. I hope devs concetrate their effort on content which is missing. I am not saying that its a bad suggestion, but its just not the right time to implement such major pvp change.

Graf, why do you think that pvp needs so much change? Do you think its imbalanced?

Tomowolf

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 03:52:50 pm »

I don't want to interrupt your argue - but i wanted in this suggestion that: All weapons should have chance in PvP - mean Shotguns and all Melee Weapons
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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 04:06:31 pm »

I'm sorry that I killing your suggestion topic, but anyway, just want to point you why AC in Fallout is useless.
The problem AC is bad in Fallout (not FOnline only), because in D&D there's 1d20 system, not 1d100, devs of Fallout forgot to change AC from 1d20 to 1d100, making it x5 times useless.
But most D&Ds has a problem that low level characters usually spend hours to hit someone, because on low lvl thier attack rolls are low, so the fights mostly looks like 2 blind idiots trying to hit each other.
If you'll see the same AC system in any other D&D, like Fallout has, then you'll see moslty 0, 1, 2 and very rare 4 ACs. It won't affect 1d20 system much, especially when skills are from 0 to 300 and AC from 0 to 40 in the best way.
So AC from original D&D will make low weapon skills totally useless.
And opposite to your suggestion armor should give AC depening on its class. You getting expensive armor, so you should be more defended.
But, if they will transform AC from 1d20 to 1d100, AC will become useful, but
1) Then they also can make jacket->metal->CA to light->medium->heavy.
So two characters with low Agility (or natural AC) and with hight Aglity will have almost the same AC when wearing metal, and no difference if they will wear CA.
So if metal will have max natural AC bonus limited, but will have its own bonus high, it'll allow to prevent having characters with uber high AC, the same goes to CA.
It's like in bluesuit, your AG and perks giving your AC. It should be like AGx3, anyway bluesuit shouldn't give much protection, because you need to do nothing to get it and the most brave persons are usually in bluesuit, because they know that they have nothing to lose.
Jackets will have max AC bonus from 8 AG, so 24. And give like x3 more than it gives now, so 24 too. So max is 24+24=48 AC, if you have 8-10 AG.
Leather Armors 6 AG, so 18, and x3 times than it gives now, so 45. 45+18=63 AC, if you have 6-10 AG.
Metals 4 AG, -> 12, 30 itself, so 52 AC, if you have not less than 4 AG.
CA will only count 2 AG, so player with 1 AG will have only on 3 AC less than player with 10 or any other AG, when using CA. so 2 AG gives 6 AC, and CA itself 60 AC, so you'll have 66 AC.

Also about build that allows you to have 95% in the eyes from 50 hexes with .223 ammo and long ranged weapon to 10 AG guy in BA is...
I don't think you should have always 95% to hit. Making shot with 40%-50% will make fights a bit longer and armor will really save you because of AC.

Also what bad in it, if they will start to miss? Yes, they will lose more ammunition, so they will have to craft more... but also you'll live longer making fight more longer itself.
Bursters will deal very low damage on long range with such AC system because of lack of skill.
Snipers will not always hit thier target in the head or especially eye.
Even in short distance bursters won't always kill snipers, because they will need much more skill than they all have now, or else only few bullets will hit target.
Melee and Unarmed character will need to raise thier skill for more than 150%, because it's like SG EW and BG capped at 300%, while throwing melee and unarmed at 150%.

2) Just multiply AC modifiers from AG and armors, because for 1d100 hit system and 0-300 skills current AC is the same as 0-4 AC for any other D&D game, and these max possible 4 AC won't affect anything even on 1st character level.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 04:08:43 pm by RavenousRat »
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Tomowolf

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2010, 04:12:26 pm »

Hmm.... you showed me the right suggestion... sorry for bothering all :P
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wezu

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 04:37:03 pm »

D&D style armour works a bit differently. A hit to the armour is considered a miss, there's no DR/DT - no damage or full damage and nothing in between. I also  don't think you should have always 95% to hit but I'd hate to see two dudes with miniguns shooting each other from 5 hex and missing all the time.

A good opportunity to add some tactics to PvP would be an increased miss-chance when attacking a moving target (so a AC bonus when running).  It could give melee/unarmed a chance to get close, snipers would have to time their attack to when a opponent stops to take a shot (or gets close enough to negate the AC bonus). You could run around like crazy waiting for your enemy to reload and then nail him. You'd also have a bigger chance to run away from a PK or to hide, heal and counter-attack. 
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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 04:40:18 pm »

Think about AC not only as evade (like leathers do) but about deflection - Power armor simply makes a bullet slide and cause only a glancing hit, which is nothing for the PA.
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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 04:44:25 pm »

Quote
The problem AC is bad in Fallout (not FOnline only), because in D&D there's 1d20 system, not 1d100, devs of Fallout forgot to change AC from 1d20 to 1d100, making it x5 times useless.
And what does Fallout have to do with D&D?
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avv

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 04:48:30 pm »

Tomowolf you can't forget that BA costs many times more than leather jacket. So the two cannot be equal in terms of protection, not even in differend situations.

Think about AC not only as evade (like leathers do) but about deflection - Power armor simply makes a bullet slide and cause only a glancing hit, which is nothing for the PA.

Doesn't take away the fact that metal armor is obviously more cumbersome than leather jacket. But as long as metal armor costs more & takes longer to craft than leather jacket, there's no reason to even talk about the whole thing.

And what does Fallout have to do with D&D?

Everything when it comes to mechanics.
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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2010, 04:51:52 pm »

Quote
Everything when it comes to mechanics.
Heh, and who told you that? The fact that the SPECIAL system shares only some aspects with d20 doesn't mean it has everything to do with it... It's something else...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 04:55:28 pm by Floodnik »
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avv

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Re: Armor Class and Weapons
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2010, 04:54:48 pm »

Heh, and who told you that? ...

Maybe I just figured it out all by myself.
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