Other > Suggestions
Assault rifle class
Lordus:
--- Quote from: avv on November 15, 2010, 01:22:40 PM ---What good is a decent burst gonna do if minigun simply overpowers it anyway? In addition it's no good to be a semi-good sniper if a good sniper will take you out. And nobody uses unaimed single shots. You aint gonna do anything with multiple bursts because everyone will always hit anyway and in close combat minigun or lsw may simply pwn you with first bursts.
Not that I don't want new weapons around but toggling the range and damage back and forth won't fix the problems certain weapons encounter.
--- End quote ---
In 1 vs 1, sniper will always dominate on long range and bg burster on short range. But if you play in groups of 10 and more players (standart numbers), the tactic possibilites of this weapon would be great.
And even more, if you will be able to choose weapon mode (single or burst), it will greatly raise your power, but also you will need more battle skill to choose mode in right time.
OskaRus:
I cant imagine the build for this type of universality. Single aimed shot on 45 hexes requires high SG skill, crit enchancing perks and high luck but burst on 35 hexes requires low SG skill, high AG to have at leas two burst in a row and high endurance, lifegivers and toughnesses. Combining those in something usefull seems impossible to me.
But some burst weapon for 45 hexes could be really interesting adittion to arsenal.
avv:
--- Quote from: Lordus on November 15, 2010, 01:28:31 PM --- In 1 vs 1, sniper will always dominate on long range and bg burster on short range. But if you play in groups of 10 and more players (standart numbers), the tactic possibilites of this weapon would be great.
And even more, if you will be able to choose weapon mode (single or burst), it will greatly raise your power, but also you will need more battle skill to choose mode in right time.
--- End quote ---
But don't we already have a class that can fight in long and close range? It's called big gunner who has minigun and rocket launcher. He makes the tactical decisions in combat by switching weapons.
The biggest problem when it comes to designing new weapon roles is that shots are launched instantly. For example if you can can deal instant 300 dmg with 2 seconds cooldown (ap regen), it's better than being able to deal 600 dmg over the course of 2 seconds. Good practical example is minigun vs p90. Minigun can simply instakill p90 user without letting him to shoot rest of his ammo. So front-heavy weapons simply overpower anything that fires fast.
Then again if you manage to make assault rifle the ultimate medicore weapon, wouldn't it mean that every gang fight would be just about who's got the best assault rifle-teamwork? I've seen this in some games: if there's one very versatile class/weapon/loadout, the chances are that the most versatile option becomes the only option. Right now we've got at least big guns and snipers, I'd hate to see only assault rifles.
Lordus:
--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 15, 2010, 01:51:46 PM ---I cant imagine the build for this type of universality. Single aimed shot on 45 hexes requires high SG skill, crit enchancing perks and high luck but burst on 35 hexes requires low SG skill, high AG to have at leas two burst in a row and high endurance, lifegivers and toughnesses. Combining those in something usefull seems impossible to me.
But some burst weapon for 45 hexes could be really interesting adittion to arsenal.
--- End quote ---
Thats the point. Not specific build for this one weapon. In group of 10 players, the superiority of build is replaced by good team tactic. Imagine sitution, that you have 10 snipers = 1 lucky shot tactic and you can immediately change it into 10 bursters = 1 burst, but very constant damage.
p
You know, that there were situations, where group A nad B hold their positions, shooting at max range and the key to win the battle was to use all bursters, flank enemy and kill them. Because teams had less bursters, teams often did not succeed. It was sadly, because there were double sniepers guarding their position than they need, if they could switch into burst, it will be great.
I dont want to create new weapon, like flying spaghetti monster (ripper bummerang), i just see the place in existing weapons structure for new weapon, that will not be different only because of some statistic, but because of new possible gameplay, you can choose.
--- Quote from: avv on November 15, 2010, 02:21:09 PM ---But don't we already have a class that can fight in long and close range? It's called big gunner who has minigun and rocket launcher. He makes the tactical decisions in combat by switching weapons.
The biggest problem when it comes to designing new weapon roles is that shots are launched instantly. For example if you can can deal instant 300 dmg with 2 seconds cooldown (ap regen), it's better than being able to deal 600 dmg over the course of 2 seconds. Good practical example is minigun vs p90. Minigun can simply instakill p90 user without letting him to shoot rest of his ammo. So front-heavy weapons simply overpower anything that fires fast.
Then again if you manage to make assault rifle the ultimate medicore weapon, wouldn't it mean that every gang fight would be just about who's got the best assault rifle-teamwork? I've seen this in some games: if there's one very versatile class/weapon/loadout, the chances are that the most versatile option becomes the only option. Right now we've got at least big guns and snipers, I'd hate to see only assault rifles.
--- End quote ---
1) There will be differences between BG class and as. rifle class:
a) BG RL is considered as "short range" in team PvP, just because distance of 10 hex between RL and sniper means death (if you are on place where can use snipers max range)
b) BG burst will be still more powerfull than as.r. class burst at same distance
c) minigun and RL are cheap.. good as.r. (FN FAL) should be more expensive (but not like sniper r.)
2) P90 is competitive to minigun/avenger burst, but you have to check victims HPs before you engage him, because your 2 bursts are faster then his.. but you need player skill to do that, not simply click click and wait for the result..
The same aim is for as.r. class: miniguner is runnig to me, i can shot one aimed shot to him, even before he gets to fire distance. I will not knock down him, because every BG uses stonewall, i will not instakill him (probably, because prob. is too small), but i can do him serious damage or criple him and then i can switch to burst and finish him. BUT it will be hard. It will need player skill to choose when use single shot, when burst, where to aim, when to run away... BG will always have advantage in his: "Veni, Vidi, click, click, click, Vici" tactic. Of course, if he is smart, he can swich to RL, clear 5 hex weapon range distance and shot one rocket with very solid constant damage to me.
3) It will not be ultimate weapon. I am sniper, so my n.1 weapon is sniper rifle. Snipers dominate in Klamath, Modoc, in parts of Den and Gecko, but they are not good in close combat cities. After this change, they will not dominate in those cites, in fact, if they will choose as.r. class weapon, they will lost their max advantage (50 hex), but they will be able to support close combat mates.. after hours of training. So no new super weapon class and builds.
avv:
--- Quote from: Lordus on November 15, 2010, 02:21:36 PM ---I dont want to create new weapon, like flying spaghetti monster (ripper bummerang), i just see the place in existing weapons structure for new weapon, that will not be different only because of some statistic, but because of new possible gameplay, you can choose.
--- End quote ---
I'm all for that but like I said, toggling the damages and ranges won't help in making more versatily in the world where front-heavy weapons dominate.
--- Quote ---2) P90 is competitive to minigun/avenger burst, but you have to check victims HPs before you engage him, because your 2 bursts are faster then his.. but you need player skill to do that, not simply click click and wait for the result..
--- End quote ---
In hinkley there are occasionally p90 users but they just get their asses kicked by everyone.
--- Quote ---The same aim is for as.r. class: miniguner is runnig to me, i can shot one aimed shot to him, even before he gets to fire distance. I will not knock down him, because every BG uses stonewall, i will not instakill him (probably, because prob. is too small), but i can do him serious damage or criple him and then i can switch to burst and finish him. BUT it will be hard. It will need player skill to choose when use single shot, when burst, where to aim, when to run away... BG will always have advantage in his: "Veni, Vidi, click, click, click, Vici" tactic. Of course, if he is smart, he can swich to RL, clear 5 hex weapon range distance and shot one rocket with very solid constant damage to me.
--- End quote ---
You forgot one thing: luck. You need pretty good luck + perks to do cripples and even then the chances aren't that bright. No skill can save you if the critical roll is against you.
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