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[Crazy]

Actually, there is only one "rare weapon" in game, the gauss pistol. I've noticed that this weapon, ultimate for snipers, very rare so very precious, was adding really a great new things in PvP fight. Like it is more powerfull that normal stuff, even the better you can get trough usual ways, but not protect the player from bullets and does not insta kill any opponents, it is a very interesting weapon to have, hard to gain but easy to loose. It add a big interest in fight: usually, you loot players, and that's cool, you get more stuff for next battle, and if you die, it's annoying, but if you have some stuff in your base, it's not so bad. With gauss pistol it's different: if you loose it, you really actually loose something, that will not be easy at all to have again. But when you loot one... So much pleasure, it really have a sense, it will make a real diference if you use it in next fight. Also it add a challenge, because ammo are rare, even if you know where to find them (I won't spoil ;p), and you can count each shot you have and you have a risk to not being able to use your awesome weapon because of lack of ammo. Rare weapon add a real taste to victory, a good pleasure to play, tough it add more rage in defeat.

But what I find sad is that it's the only rare weapon. It's usefull for sniping, but a bit  waste to use at close range. Why only a small gun?

So I suggest to add other special encounters, with other rare weapons. Vindicator for exemple, would be a very powerfull big gun, but not so ultimate cause of lack of range and... rare ammo. Like it use 4.7 caseless, another ammo not IG, you could add a way to obtain this ammo (maybe the same as 2mm).
There is also the bozar, a sniper in FOnline. Like it is less powerfull than other rare weapons, but more than usual ones, I think we could leave it with .223 ammo, and make it appear more often. It would be between the usual weaponry and the rare weaponry.
We could also add the HKG11, and small gun burster will be happy with this deadly bursting weapon!
The last problem is for energy weapons. A rare turbo plasma would be awesome, but sadly, it use the same MFC than usual weapons! 2 solutions: leave it as it is, and it won't be so bad, MFC is expansive anyway. Or we could create a new ammo for this weapon, let's call it "overcharged MFC" or whatever else and make it available as 2mm and 4.7.

It really think it would add more taste to the big fights, if they still remain as rare as gauss. Add a real sense to victory and defeat...

[Kilgore]

Yep, I always wonder why they don't add rare items (not only weapons) to the game but sometimes even try to convince players that everything not craftable should not be available. Well, everything was said in your post, so I don't think I have anything to add.

[Lordus]

Laser Gatling is also rare weapon

 I agree that those weapons are something special.. We were able to challenge enemy only because we used first gauss pistol and than because we bought ammo from players who hates PKs like Rogues and CS. (at least one thing why is anti PK roleplay better than PK).

 benefits:
 
a) new kind of treasure hunt, very exciting if you find, trade, loot one
b) new challenge for character builders, when they are designing new builds for that weapons

 Possible problems and solutions:

 You can regulate their usage by ammo (like gauss gun), or by bigger det. if they use common ammo.

 Little suggestion, i found that there is a unusual encounter, it is called Water dam traders and we found them at right end of the world map. We were very curious, if they have someting special in their inventory, but they did not But maybe this could be a way. Special encounter like this, that is moving across the world map (so they will not exist in one or few predefined locations) and it would be very hard to locate them and buy their stuff. But it could be also funny.

[Surf]

@ Lordus:


I think I already said it somewhere before, but I am working on some similar special encounter like you mentioned.

[Eternauta]

I kind of disagree. Instead of doing stuff to keep encouraging PvP with super weapons, I think it would be awesome if we never used tier 3 weapons or armor, and tier 2 was expensive/hard to farm/etc.

I do not understand how can simple wastelanders and "minor factions" (player factions are minor as they have no influence on Fallout history) use the same weapons as Brotherhood/Enclave/NCR.

Also, I think that current "rare", uncraftable weapons are only helpful to produce MOAR alts, like "I found a Bozar, gonna create a 10 Luck Finesse Big Guns alt", or "I found a Laser Gatling, gonna create a 10 Agility 10 Endurance Energy Weapons bursting alt". That doesn't make much sense to me. Rare/Uncraftable weapons should fit with "conventional" builds. I believe you and I agree on that, Crazy. But like I said, these should not be super weapons.

[Michaelh139]

I kind of disagree. Instead of doing stuff to keep encouraging PvP with super weapons, I think it would be awesome if we never used tier 3 weapons or armor, and tier 2 was expensive/hard to farm/etc.

I do not understand how can simple wastelanders and "minor factions" (player factions are minor as they have no influence on Fallout history) use the same weapons as Brotherhood/Enclave/NCR.

Also, I think that current "rare", uncraftable weapons are only helpful to produce MOAR alts, like "I found a Bozar, gonna create a 10 Luck Finesse Big Guns alt", or "I found a Laser Gatling, gonna create a 10 Agility 10 Endurance Energy Weapons bursting alt". That doesn't make much sense to me. Rare/Uncraftable weapons should fit with "conventional" builds. I believe you and I agree on that, Crazy. But like I said, these should not be super weapons.

I agree, it would be way more interesting if we all used real wasteland weapons.  Longer fights instead of the "lolzdead" in 2 seconds from one shot. (Critical builds will be more useful though...  but hey, wasteland is the wild west, it kinda fits.)  Minigun should be boosted accordingly though.

BA, Avenger etc. should be extremely rare weapons only found in rare encounters.  (no not once in lifetime encounters, but like, 15% chance to have encounters)

Lets say you meet "Specialz encounter" as i have said, there would be say, 10 npcs, one npc would wield a rare weapon, all the others normal weapon, but you must fight these npcs to get the weapon.  (continuos radio connection to call in friends for help would be more than "hey help me pk some guy in turnbased")

[Lordus]

Hehe, 3 hard core PvP TC players agree with this suggestions, non PvP TC players disagree

I also like Mad Max universe, you know, shotgun with zero shells, only pretending that gun is loaded, spears, bows, poison snakes But this is Fallout and even in F1 and F2, there was a man (woman) who used Brotherhood and Enclave stuff 

 You know, designing best char for gauss pistol was good time on our mumble.

 Look at Bozar.. it has average 40 dmg, sniper r. has average 24 dmg, so Bozar is about 1/2 better than sniper, BUT you need 8 agility to shoot eyeshots (9 AP) and you need ST 6. If you want to have other sniper stats, like 12 perception (10 PE + sharpshooter), and high luck, you need to lower your HP or at least one perk. So of course, you need to create new char, specialized only for this (because Bozar is still BG, not small gun) and thats ok.

 Gauss pistol show that even superior weapon is not ruining PvP, if source of that weapon and ammo is limited and it is not connected with main economy system.

  So i will add:

 You can regulate their usage by:
 a) limiting source of weapon, not dependent on main economy system (gauss pistol), or
 a) limiting source of  ammo (like gauss ammo), or
 b) by bigger det. if they use common ammo, or
 c) by non compatible assignment of weapon into existing weapon class (like Bozar, maybe Gauss pistol). This mean, that if you would have less than sufficient number of Bozars, their usage would not be common because not many players would create new powerbuild only for that gun, if using of other common guns in that class would be inferior (Best BG Bozar build would not be best Avenger, LSW, RL build)..
 

@ Lordus:


I think I already said it somewhere before, but I am working on some similar special encounter like you mentioned.

 Hurray' 

[Surf]

Hurray'  Kiss

You know what? You could actually help me there. (this goes for all the experiences PvP players).
It is a type of dungeon I designed, repeatable, but everytime you visit it, the layout and the outcome will be different.
It is designed as a group dungeon, you will need repairsmen, gunfighters ofcourse, but aswell speechsmen too. Now.
How would you design the outcome of the quest? (loot etc) Note, that it has to be very good, but not as good that a character would be "über".

Serious question here.

[Lordus]

You know what? You could actually help me there. (this goes for all the experiences PvP players).
It is a type of dungeon I designed, repeatable, but everytime you visit it, the layout and the outcome will be different.
It is designed as a group dungeon, you will need repairsmen, gunfighters ofcourse, but aswell speechsmen too. Now.
How would you design the outcome of the quest? (loot etc) Note, that it has to be very good, but not as good that a character would be "über".

Serious question here.

 I though about this few eras before. I thing that there should exist kind of pyramid system. I wil explain it.

 There should exist one dungeon type with minor modifications. Modification should be unacesible small room (closed doors to room, or locker only, ...) you need to unlock via colour card. But there would not exist one card, but card system, like pyramid.

 In first minor class of dungeon, there would be no locked doors or rooms, but yellow card (sometimes). In tier one class of same dungeon type, there should be doors/locker that could be opened only via yellow card. There could be better stuff and another card, i.e. blue one, that would open doors/locker in tier 2 class of same dungeon type, than red card and best stuff.... .

 So you can even at first time found the dungeon with best stuff, but without chance of opening.

 It would also be a reason to go again to dungeons, or this could also support trading of this cards among players(4 yellows for 1 blue, 4 blues for 1 red,.. market will solve this ratio) , or hiring mates for that actions.

 On the highest tier of closed locker, there should be something "rare" like ammo to gauss or similar thing, but still random.

 The economy impact is that even main economy system would colapse (like every era in Fonline, like every 10 years in real world), so some players or gangs would have zilions of caps because of TC,... , regular players could make benefit from their situation, because they would still have something valuable for huge gangs (colour acces cards) and they could change it for adequate number of caps.

[Surf]

There should exist one dungeon type with minor modifications.

Point taken, thats what I am aiming for. A partially (*) instanced "dungeon" only accessable to groups. It will be located in Fresno, California. It is Southeast of San Francisco.




 Modification should be unacesible small room (closed doors to room, or locker only, ...) you need to unlock via colour card. But there would not exist one card, but card system, like pyramid.

 In first minor class of dungeon, there would be no locked doors or rooms, but yellow card (sometimes). In tier one class of same dungeon type, there should be doors/locker that could be opened only via yellow card. There could be better stuff and another card, i.e. blue one, that would open doors/locker in tier 2 class of same dungeon type, than red card and best stuff.... .

 So you can even at first time found the dungeon with best stuff, but without chance of opening.

 It would also be a reason to go again to dungeons, or this could also support trading of this cards among players(4 yellows for 1 blue, 4 blues for 1 red,.. market will solve this ratio) , or hiring mates for that actions.

 On the highest tier of closed locker, there should be something "rare" like ammo to gauss or similar thing, but still random.

 The economy impact is that even main economy system would colapse (like every era in Fonline, like every 10 years in real world), so some players or gangs would have zilions of caps because of TC,... , regular players could make benefit from their situation, because they would still have something valuable for huge gangs (colour acces cards) and they could change it for adequate number of caps.

It will be available in the area here



( dont pay much attention to the rest only the red stuff on it, it is a design doc, not a final document, this is just part of the map I designed stuff for) - I am speaking of the "iron bird" stuff. Your suggestion was pretty vague, so what would the outcome right now will be besides a gauss pistol or even rifle? Really interest in your opinions.

[avv]

Crazy is speaking the truth, special non-grindable weapons provide priceless experiences.

I agree, it would be way more interesting if we all used real wasteland weapons.  Longer fights instead of the "lolzdead" in 2 seconds from one shot. (Critical builds will be more useful though...  but hey, wasteland is the wild west, it kinda fits.)  Minigun should be boosted accordingly though.

BA, Avenger etc. should be extremely rare weapons only found in rare encounters.  (no not once in lifetime encounters, but like, 15% chance to have encounters)

Couldn't agree more. Putting most current 3rd tier weapons in the rare and special category would be awesome. They just have to be as rare as gauss pistol is now or players will abstain from pvp and start complaining because they think they "need" the best of the best gear.

[Sarakin]

More weapons = more fun. Now we got only gauss pistol, which favours small gun users, so I think other types of weapons could use one or two rare weapons too. System for gaining them could be the same as with gauss pistol.
Anyway I agree with crazy, it adds flavour to every fight with and against these rare weapons.

@Eternauta
Concerning alting, noone forces you to make a character that is made only to play with a certain weapon. I must say, I do this and Im really having a great time making up these "builds" and playing with them. Thats one of the things that makes RPGs for me enjoyable.

@Michaelh
Avenger and Combat armor are not rare, but still valuable and loss one or more of these items is noticeable. I like it how it is now.

@Surf_Solar
Loot should depend on how repeatable will be these dungeons. With a proper CD  , there can be valuable stuff such as rare ammo, depending on the difficulty and complexity of the dungeon. Otherwise, it will be farmable and therefore, gains should be set according to time spent there.

[DocAN.]

what can i say... i agree with this idea but it was suggested many times, without any respond from dev team

[avv]

@MichaelhAvenger and Combat armor are not rare, but still valuable and loss one or more of these items is noticeable. I like it how it is now.

The thing with these 3rd tier equipments is that big gangs can amass them easily, but lone players can't. Dunno if that's meant to be but if those were the rare items like gauss the economic cap between poor and rich would be thinner since pvp would be mostly waged with 2nd tier weapons. And big gangs couldn't farm and amass rare special items significantly faster than one player.

[DocAN.]

big gangs have around 20 people, so more chances to find somthing special